Rafale News IX

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15 years 9 months

Posts: 3,280

Perhaps a bit too early after the lock of the other one? Anyway I'll give it a shot:

http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/Iraq:_Talabani_Sarkozy_and_Rafale_F-1/936


Iraq: Talabani, Sarkozy and Rafale F-1

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani and his French counterpart Nicolas Sarkozy are said to have discussed Iraqi plans to buy the French-made Rafale aircraft at their meeting in Paris last month. The following 329-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how each side approached it and what each side told the other about the obstacles that are standing on the way.

Surprising if true... Could the French have some second-hand F-1 they may would like to offer Iraq?

Original post

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16 years 2 months

Posts: 2,248

Perhaps a bit too early after the lock of the other one? Anyway I'll give it a shot:

http://tacticalreport.com/view_news/Iraq:_Talabani_Sarkozy_and_Rafale_F-1/936

Surprising if true... Could the French have some second-hand F-1 they may would like to offer Iraq?

No on the second hand F1.
The upgrade to F3 standard for these has been funded.
http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=111778

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20 years 7 months

Posts: 1,842

Surprising if true... Could the French have some second-hand F-1 they may would like to offer Iraq?

Not only we just solved that question of those useless F1 but on the other hand, who in the world would be foolish enough to buy only 10 planes with so limited capabilities for its price ?

Honnestly, if Iraq want second hand fighter, we have that, but it's Mirage 2000 from UAE :D

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18 years 7 months

Posts: 893

I suspect it's about Mirage F1, not Rafale F1...

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18 years 7 months

Posts: 563

I suspect it's about Mirage F1, not Rafale F1...

Then I doubt it too. Most Mirage F-1, whatever their current operator, are well likely to be totally worn out. And it is impossible to retrofit an airframe indefinitely, no matter how good are the new equipments...

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18 years 3 months

Posts: 1,447

Here are some infos about the DDMG coming with the F3+ standard in 2012.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/docs_wsw/fichiers_communs/docs/pdf07_ddmng.pdf

State-of-the-art staring array technology
• Long detection range
• Very large field of view
• High angular accuracy compliant with
DIRCM needs

Perhaps we will be able to see some kind of equivalent to the F35 DAS if the DDM-NG is developped with all possibilities linked to its technology ?

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18 years 7 months

Posts: 4,461

Here are some infos about the DDMG coming with the F3+ standard in 2012.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/docs_wsw/fichiers_communs/docs/pdf07_ddmng.pdf

Perhaps we will be able to see some kind of equivalent to the F35 DAS if the DDM-NG is developped with all possibilities linked to its technology ?

Software wise it might well be possible, the problem is that there are just 2 sensors instead of 6 as on the F-35. So without additional sensors you won't achieve the same coverage.

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18 years 3 months

Posts: 1,447

Good point. Are your sure there are only 2 ? I thought they were four although I am not certain. (2 on both side of the tale box) and two on each side of the cockpit...But I think I might be mixing that with the Laser warning reciever !

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17 years 7 months

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You have to pair them up for redundancy and the second one would actually help with granularity of threat detection. You can only do so much with one receiver. The second opens up a slew of technical possibilities.

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18 years 7 months

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Good point. Are your sure there are only 2 ? I thought they were four although I am not certain. (2 on both side of the tale box) and two on each side of the cockpit...But I think I might be mixing that with the Laser warning reciever !

Those on the fuselage are the LWRs. The MAW sensors are located on the fins Spectra pod only.

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15 years 9 months

Posts: 3,280

Swiss evaluation committe prefers Rafale:

http://info.rsr.ch/fr/rsr.html?siteSect=5001&broadcastId=715546&bcItemId=11603422

Google translated:

The Rafale has the wind in its sails

Specialists in military aviation have their favorite to replace Tiger Swiss. The "Neue Luzerner Zeitung revealed yesterday that the evaluation committee had chosen the Rafale from the French aircraft manufacturer Dassault. This morning, the newspaper Lucerne returns on their information by referring to the surprise of parliament in central Switzerland to the swiftness of this choice.

Comments from the Specialists on this forum :)

Member for

18 years 7 months

Posts: 4,461

Swiss evaluation committe prefers Rafale:

http://info.rsr.ch/fr/rsr.html?siteSect=5001&broadcastId=715546&bcItemId=11603422

Google translated:

Comments from the Specialists on this forum :)

The comitee prefers the Rafale and will suggest its selection to the government, but the government has to make the final decision. Hopefully the Swiss lives up to its promises and makes transparent on what grounds the selection was done.

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 1,447

After Korea, Singapore and the Neederlands technical evaluations I am curiously waiting to see J*******o arguments this time to countradict, as usual, official or tangible sources.:D

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16 years 7 months

Posts: 3,765

After Korea, Singapore and the Neederlands technical evaluations I am curiously waiting to see J*******o arguments this time to countradict, as usual, official or tangible sources.:D

Arthuro

With Switzerland, Brasil and the UAE this MIGHT be Rafale´s year. Fingers crossed.

Cheers :)

ps- I was expecting a swedish victory on this one...

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 1,447

Hello Sintra,

2009 was supposed to be rafale's year already...But let's hope the best for 2010 then.

I was also stressing the fact that the rafale was very successful in past technical evaluations quoted above but then something went wrong ! (lack of political clout compared to the US, depreciation of the dollar, bad coordination between french authorities and dassault...)

I hope that won't repeat but one is never sure !

Member for

14 years 11 months

Posts: 17


ps- I was expecting a swedish victory on this one...

Me too, Sintra. Perhaps, the Swiss Air Force fears that Saab will have to face a hard future?

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 3,765

Me too, Sintra. Perhaps, the Swiss Air Force fears that Saab will have to face a hard future?

Hello Skw

Havent seen you in DB. Thats one interesting theory, it might very well true... But well, lets wait.

Member for

14 years 11 months

Posts: 17

Sintra, pleased to meet you again :) Unfortunately, I don’t have much time for now. Then I continue to read some topics on the DB’s forum but I cannot add posts : it lacks time

Member for

14 years 3 months

Posts: 33

"After Korea, Singapore and the Neederlands technical evaluations I am curiously waiting to see J*******o arguments this time to countradict, as usual, official or tangible sources."

If he has any sense he'll wait until there's something 'official or tangible' (as opposed to one report in a minor Swiss paper) to comment on.

If indeed the result comes as any surprise, or if it contains anything that is subject to interpretation.

But how likely is that? Didn't the Swiss promise to release a proper summary of their evaluation results, with the reasons for their decision?

And aren't we expecting an announcement on this in 1Q10?

Or will the whole thing be abandoned in favour of a Super Hornet buy, as many seem to expect?

As to your other examples:
Korea - F-15 won the competition, Rafale may have won the AF technical evaluation. The evidence is patchy. I like to think that it did win.

Singapore - F-15 won, Typhoon may have won the AF technical evaluation. The evidence is patchy. Thank goodness Typhoon lost out, winning a Singapore order then would have been an embarrassing disaster.

Netherlands - The F-35 (then unflown) won a paperwork exercise that was primarily economic and industrial, and its aim aim was to examine the advantages and disadvantages of Dutch participation in the JSF programme. Comparing competing aircraft was a side issue, and was still primarily economic.

None of the competiting aircraft were flown by the evaluation team - which came from the Dutch Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis!

In the absence of a technical evaluation and in the absence of official data (both Dassault and Eurofighter have said that the CPB evaluation was conducted without their co-operation, and that they gave the Dutch no access to confidential or technical data), the CBP were advised by the NLR, who 'guesstimated' and compiled such performance AND cost data as they could.

And we know how much data Lockheed were giving their allies and partners on JSF back then.......!

Dassault submitted no bid, no price, and no specification, (nor did Eurofighter) so even the economic analysis was problematic, and Flight at the time (March 2002) reported that both Dassault and Eurofighter had complained that their proposals to supply fighters to the Royal Netherlands Air Force had not been seriously considered by the economic affairs ministry, and specifically the CPB, the Netherlands economic policy analysis office when assessing bids to supply a future fighter.

That's right - Dassault complained that this economic evaluation didn't seriously consider Rafale..... :rolleyes:

What we do know is that Kuwait, Morocco and the UAE DO prefer Rafale, and that Brazil will almost certainly order the type. All of those are more reliable and more recent indicators of customer preference than those you dredge up from the start of the decade.

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14 years 4 months

Posts: 669

Singapore - F-15 won, Typhoon may have won the AF technical evaluation. The evidence is patchy. Thank goodness Typhoon lost out, winning a Singapore order then would have been an embarrassing disaster.

Explain how it would have won the TechEval and still being eliminated of the final stage of the competition?

Netherlands - The F-35 (then unflown) won a paperwork exercise that was primarily economic and industrial, and its aim aim was to examine the advantages and disadvantages of Dutch participation in the JSF programme. Comparing competing aircraft was a side issue, and was still primarily economic.

Rafale lost by 2 points to F-35, had the real F-35 programe and unit cost been known it would have lost it.

F-35 : 697/850.

Rafale : 695/850.

Eurofighter : 585/850.

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14 years 5 months

Posts: 1,741

if the talk is true, the pres wants rafale, the bean counters want gripen and the airforce want superh

then this may not be what ya want to hear, or is just more game playing
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aereo.jor.br%2F2009%2F12%2F14%2Flula-confirma-que-decisao-sobre-cacas-ficara-para-2010%2F

President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva confirmed on Monday that the federal government in 2010 will leave the decision on the purchase of 36 fighter jets to the Brazilian Air Force.