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By: - 5th December 2008 at 04:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Okay kiddies, keep it clean and civilized this time! :eek:
By: - 5th December 2008 at 05:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ehhhh, just the say the Raptor is here, but I for one am anxiously awaiting the next product of Russian engineering. :)
But the Raptor was here first :diablo:
By: - 5th December 2008 at 05:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I eagerly await actual pictures of the test airplane. One picture is worth a thousand internet threads of speculation.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 06:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I eagerly await actual pictures of the test airplane. One picture is worth a thousand internet threads of speculation.
The first pic you will get will likely be the first flight.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 07:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The first pic you will get will likely be the first flight.
Amen!
Someone else said it first a long time ago, but I think it's only too appropriate when dealing with the PAK FA. The very minute that picture comes out:
1) Someone will draw similarities of the PAK FA to the F-22/Typhoon/F-15E/Tie Fighter and declare it as a clear copy of an obviously superior western design, while using other copied designs (Tu-160, Mig-29, Su-25... pretty much anything if it has wings) as proof of evidence.
2) A russian fanboy will decry this claim, pointing out various features of the new aircraft that make it distinct, while proclaiming this new aircraft as the greatest invention since dirt and/or the harbinger of Jesus. It's ability to do the Cobra-maneuver-times-eleventybillion will be a particular point of conflict.
3) The first person will begin a flame war with the second person so vast that it will raise JonJames and Star49 from the dead. This will be known as the Great Cataclysm of Keypublishing.
3) A third person will duly point out that the UNITED STATES copied THE RUSSIANS via the F-15 and the Mig-25, accusing the US of doing the very same.
3.5) Someone will, of course, call it a photoshop.
4) A person of intelligence will point out that similar intended roles generally result in a similar design, at some point using the quote "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" by the fourth page of the argument. This brave soul, though noble in pursuit, will quit the thread by page seven.
5) Someone will attempt to point out that looks don't account for jack **** in the long run, and actual performance and capability is what actually matters. This person will, unfortunately, be unheard as the fanboys grind each other into permabannage and page closure.
This pattern will spread throughout all aviation forums; particularly in irandefense, acecombatskies, and any russian-based forum period. Prepare for anarchy.
EDIT: That being said, I seriously propose that the PAK FA Saga thread be split into two: One for pictures, news, and data about the PAK FA that comes in as a sort of database of information, and one for the actual speculation (a.k.a. inevitable flame war). Cause I dont feel like sifting through twelve pages of arguing to find the one post with actual meaningful information or news.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 07:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
We may even get a chance to see how effective its ejection seat is, at an airshow.:cool:
By: - 5th December 2008 at 08:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Amen!Someone else said it first a long time ago, but I think it's only too appropriate when dealing with the PAK FA. The very minute that picture comes out:
1) Someone will draw similarities of the PAK FA to the F-22/Typhoon/F-15E/Tie Fighter and declare it as a clear copy of an obviously superior western design, while using other copied designs (Tu-160, Mig-29, Su-25... pretty much anything if it has wings) as proof of evidence.
2) A russian fanboy will decry this claim, pointing out various features of the new aircraft that make it distinct, while proclaiming this new aircraft as the greatest invention since dirt and/or the harbinger of Jesus. It's ability to do the Cobra-maneuver-times-eleventybillion will be a particular point of conflict.
3) The first person will begin a flame war with the second person so vast that it will raise JonJames and Star49 from the dead. This will be known as the Great Cataclysm of Keypublishing.
3) A third person will duly point out that the UNITED STATES copied THE RUSSIANS via the F-15 and the Mig-25, accusing the US of doing the very same.
3.5) Someone will, of course, call it a photoshop.
4) A person of intelligence will point out that similar intended roles generally result in a similar design, at some point using the quote "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" by the fourth page of the argument. This brave soul, though noble in pursuit, will quit the thread by page seven.
5) Someone will attempt to point out that looks don't account for jack **** in the long run, and actual performance and capability is what actually matters. This person will, unfortunately, be unheard as the fanboys grind each other into permabannage and page closure.
This pattern will spread throughout all aviation forums; particularly in irandefense, acecombatskies, and any russian-based forum period. Prepare for anarchy.
EDIT: That being said, I seriously propose that the PAK FA Saga thread be split into two: One for pictures, news, and data about the PAK FA that comes in as a sort of database of information, and one for the actual speculation (a.k.a. inevitable flame war). Cause I dont feel like sifting through twelve pages of arguing to find the one post with actual meaningful information or news.
A brilliant post! I might humbly provide my own addition to the point 3 - several persons will return the attack with the argument that the MiG-25 is a shameless copy of RA-5 Vigilante and that since the end of WWII there was no single invention that was not in fact of American origin..
By: - 5th December 2008 at 08:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
ok, enough of this crap, first news of the day.
Russia, India to sign next-generation fighter deal in early 2009NEW DELHI, December 5 (RIA Novosti) - Russia and India are due to sign a contract at the beginning of 2009 to jointly develop and produce a fifth-generation jet fighter, the head of the United Aircraft Corporation said on Friday.
"We are planning to conclude the contract at the beginning of next year," Alexei Fedorov said.
The Russian-Indian advanced multirole fighter is being developed by Sukhoi, which is part of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), along with India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), under a preliminary intergovernmental agreement signed in October 2007.
Russia and India will simultaneously develop two versions of the combat aircraft - a two-seat version to meet the requirements of India's air superiority policy, and a single-seat version for the Russian Air Force.
Russia's Sukhoi aircraft maker earlier said it had started to construct a prototype of the fifth-generation fighter, which will feature high maneuverability and stealth to ensure air superiority and precision in destroying ground and sea targets.
The Russian version will be built at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft-manufacturing plant in Russia's Far East.
Flight tests of the fighter are due to begin as early as 2009, and the aircraft may go into production by 2015, Sukhoi said.
Russia's military cooperation with India goes back nearly half a century, and the Asian country accounts for about 40% of Russian arms exports.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 08:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
...will point out that similar intended roles generally result in a similar design
And someone will give F-23 as example that this is not true...
By: - 5th December 2008 at 09:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Does anyone know why the Russian air force is so keen on single-pilot fighters? Is there something in particular in their doctrine that means UB variants are only ever built for training or is it simply a matter of weight and capability? The Flanker would certainly suggest it's not weight.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 10:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Does anyone know why the Russian air force is so keen on single-pilot fighters?
And why they will need two-pilot fighter? If you look at the way USSR intended to use their fighters, both in PVO and VVS, you will see that they used to be guided to the target by ground GCI network. There are examples like Yak-25, Yak-28, Tu-128, MiG-31 and in small numbers Su-30, that two-seaters were used. But they all were interceptors with long or somewhat longe range. I don't see a point of a two-seater MiG-21 or MiG-23. Even MiG-29 or Su-27 can do their job without second pilot.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 12:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So, when compared to the IAF's insistence on two-pilot heavy fighter types, it's basically a question of the Russian fighters being intended for networking with the PVO where as the IAF operates without ground support? Interesting. Certainly it would explain the lack of a dedicated radar intercept officer, as I understand it the primary role of the co-pilot on a Su-30MKI. My thanks.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 12:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Interesting. Certainly it would explain the lack of a dedicated radar intercept officer, as I understand it the primary role of the co-pilot on a Su-30MKI.
The IAF want a true multi-role strike-fighter with long endurance CAP (Indian Ocean, Indo-pak/chinese border), looking to the future scenarios of EW, NCW etc.etc. the IAF feels that 2 crew would be better suited (to the workload).
Obviously the RuAF may select the 2 seater for dedicated roles in the future- kinda like an FB-22.
High-Res. pics of Su-35 '902':
http://www.sukhoi.org/gallery/?gallery_110&cur_gallery_id=138
By: - 5th December 2008 at 15:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A brilliant post! I might humbly provide my own addition to the point 3 - several persons will return the attack with the argument that the MiG-25 is a shameless copy of RA-5 Vigilante and that since the end of WWII there was no single invention that was not in fact of American origin..
7. Russian fanboys will proclaim "it PWNS the F-22!!! F-22 SUX!!!" even if Sukhoi rolls out a Sopwith Camel with "PAK-FA" painted on the side. (That would be a hilarious April Fool's.)
note: Funny how nobody is saying Sukhoi will come up with something original but are bracing for the "inevitable" claims of copying. Sounds like even the fanboys have doubts. :diablo: Being original *is* possible- Northrop did it after all.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 15:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And lost :diablo:
True, but I've yet to hear ANYBODY say it was due to technical merit. ;)
By: - 5th December 2008 at 16:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
whens this thing gonna do its maiden :confused:
By: - 5th December 2008 at 17:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
note: Funny how nobody is saying Sukhoi will come up with something original but are bracing for the "inevitable" claims of copying. Sounds like even the fanboys have doubts. :diablo: Being original *is* possible- Northrop did it after all.They will come out with the most practical solution in the first place. Designing something in style of STALMA just to make few fanboys happy about the originality just does not make any sense.
By: - 5th December 2008 at 17:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
7. Russian fanboys will proclaim "it PWNS the F-22!!! F-22 SUX!!!" even if Sukhoi rolls out a Sopwith Camel with "PAK-FA" painted on the side. (That would be a hilarious April Fool's.)note: Funny how nobody is saying Sukhoi will come up with something original but are bracing for the "inevitable" claims of copying. Sounds like even the fanboys have doubts. :diablo: Being original *is* possible- Northrop did it after all.
Ohh look!, a brilliant begining!, she has come with all her typical glamour! , of course is the great Queen of Trolland!, great opening post!
Anyway...
With Sukhoi becoming in the leader of the military airspace industry, i wonder what will happen to designs, concepts and dogmas like the Mig-31, i doubt the 27/35 could replace the old fast high stratomaster 31, cruiser missiles are a more problematic issue than X-band reduced RCS planes..
I might be wrong, but if i remember well the russian AF was not so intested in the Su-35, because was/is more a multirol plane, and seems the ruskis (at least for domestic use) dont like multirole planes (neither me -multirole planes are nice in small AF though).
There are plans to mount the Irbis on Foxhounds?
Lets see what happens with the Pkfa, since is an aircraft that will weight between 14-15 tons im not so confident about a bomb bay larger than the f-22..but, well, lets wait and see
By: - 5th December 2008 at 17:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Have this speculation been published here, you may find it on few russian forums :diablo: Last picture on the paralay's site forum
As someone there has said - "it is simple - just a mix of F-22, YF-23 and SU-27" :) And a little bit of MiG-31 i would say :p
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By: Otaku - 4th December 2008 at 21:13
Goodbye Raptor :( Hello PAK-FA :)...