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The PAK-FA Saga Episode VI

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  • dionis
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2004
    • 1878

    Originally posted by sferrin View Post
    Well one of them will look like a Su-34, another the Su-35BM (the Russians claim they're 5th generation aircraft even if nobody else does) and the third (the PAK-FA) will be "delayed". :diablo:
    Good trolling.

    Comment

    • Looking
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 104

      Originally posted by dionis View Post
      Good trolling.
      But accurate though.

      Comment

      • dionis
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Sep 2004
        • 1878

        Originally posted by Looking View Post
        But accurate though.
        Not at all.

        Pure anti Russian bull****.

        Comment

        • Looking
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2008
          • 104

          Originally posted by dionis View Post
          Not at all.

          Pure anti Russian bull****.
          Not at all,

          Moscow: Russia's fifth-generation fighter plane will be ready in 2007, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force Vladimir Mikhailov said Tuesday.

          "Work to build the fifth-generation plane is going according to schedule," he said.

          Mikhailov said, however, that the project had encountered some financial problems after civilian aircraft were produced using the money allocated in the budget for the fighter planes.

          "Clearly, the development of aviation technology will depend on specific military and economic conditions, determining the progress of reform in the Russian armed forces and the country's aircraft construction industry. However, Russia will continue to be a leading aircraft-building power," he said.

          http://www.india-defence.com/reports/1200

          It has been one missed promise after another with this project so it would hardly be shocking if it wasn't ready would it?

          Comment

          • Griffon39
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Mar 2008
            • 922

            Originally posted by Scooter View Post
            Funny, on what we consider a given in the western world.........Russia should get a free ride???
            Uhhh... how does Russia "get a free ride" by chosing not to show off some semi-built prototype for the media 8 moths before its first flight?

            Cant really see what the fuzz is about here..

            Comment

            • dionis
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2004
              • 1878

              Outdated news and information. Everything has been on track for a year now.

              Any other provocative crap you'd like to post?

              Comment

              • Looking
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 104

                Originally posted by dionis View Post
                Outdated news and information. Everything has been on track for a year now.

                Any other provocative crap you'd like to post?
                Its not outdated news but a factually correct historical record of the delays that foolish people such as yourself seem unable to acknowledge. I'm sure with a bit of searching I could find equally damning evidence to suggest all is not well with this project only for you to disregard it because it does not fit your thinking.
                http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070522/65892313.html
                there you go, one where he claimed a 2008 flight which is yet another factually and historical record of delay.

                Comment

                • CommanderJB
                  Rank 3 Registered User
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 700

                  I take it you'd have liked them to inform everyone of the delay before it happened?
                  Delays are no evidence for claiming that the PAK FA is a spin project and all manufacturer claims are lies. Delays happen to nearly every aircraft project on the planet. Do the F-35's electrical problems mean that LM is untrustworthy? Do the Tejas' engine troubles show that HAL is a bunch of spindoctors? Hardly. So why should a report to the media made on information that to the best of everyone's knowledge was accurate at the time which was later proven incorrect by something unforseen somehow make all the rest of Sukhoi's claims bunk?

                  Comment

                  • Looking
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 104

                    Originally posted by CommanderJB View Post
                    I take it you'd have liked them to inform everyone of the delay before it happened?
                    Delays are no evidence for claiming that the PAK FA is a spin project and all manufacturer claims are lies. Delays happen to nearly every aircraft project on the planet. Do the F-35's electrical problems mean that LM is untrustworthy? Do the Tejas' engine troubles show that HAL is a bunch of spindoctors? Hardly. So why should a report to the media made on information that to the best of everyone's knowledge was accurate at the time which was later proven incorrect by something unforseen somehow make all the rest of Sukhoi's claims bunk?
                    Delays do not mean someone is telling lies and that is not what I was saying. What i alluded to was the fact this project is said to be ready to fly by a new date every 12 months or so only to be delayed further so don't expect it not to happen again. Infact you'd be thoroughly nieve to expect it to roll out the hanger on time for its first flight in 2009.

                    Comment

                    • CommanderJB
                      Rank 3 Registered User
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 700

                      Very well, I accept your point, though I will still be hoping that this time they've got the bugs ironed out and remain of the opinion that the expectation of failure is somewhat pessimistic given that the programme in its current state has, to the best of my knowledge, suffered only one real reported setback. Though the point you were supporting was hardly saying the same thing as above.

                      Comment

                      • wrightwing
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 4042

                        Originally posted by dionis View Post
                        Good trolling.
                        Lighten up Francis. That was at the very least mildly amusing.

                        Comment

                        • dionis
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Sep 2004
                          • 1878

                          Originally posted by Looking View Post
                          Its not outdated news but a factually correct historical record of the delays that foolish people such as yourself seem unable to acknowledge. I'm sure with a bit of searching I could find equally damning evidence to suggest all is not well with this project only for you to disregard it because it does not fit your thinking.
                          http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070522/65892313.html
                          there you go, one where he claimed a 2008 flight which is yet another factually and historical record of delay.
                          This is crap once again. It's news that's over a year old. They have been saying a long time the likely flight was sometime in 2009. Now they have even given us an exact date.

                          Originally posted by CommanderJB View Post
                          I take it you'd have liked them to inform everyone of the delay before it happened?
                          Delays are no evidence for claiming that the PAK FA is a spin project and all manufacturer claims are lies. Delays happen to nearly every aircraft project on the planet. Do the F-35's electrical problems mean that LM is untrustworthy? Do the Tejas' engine troubles show that HAL is a bunch of spindoctors? Hardly. So why should a report to the media made on information that to the best of everyone's knowledge was accurate at the time which was later proven incorrect by something unforseen somehow make all the rest of Sukhoi's claims bunk?
                          You know, everything Russian is crap and second rate. Everything American is prime.

                          Comment

                          • Looking
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 104

                            Originally posted by dionis View Post
                            This is crap once again. It's news that's over a year old. They have been saying a long time the likely flight was sometime in 2009. Now they have even given us an exact date.
                            Have it your way then, the PAK_FA has never suffered from delays or setbacks and those that said it would fly in 2007 and 2008 were talking crap even though they were about as important people as you can get concerning PAK-FA.
                            Happy now? :diablo:

                            Comment

                            • dionis
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 1878

                              Originally posted by Looking View Post
                              Have it your way then, the PAK_FA has never suffered from delays or setbacks and those that said it would fly in 2007 and 2008 were talking crap even though they were about as important people as you can get concerning PAK-FA.
                              Happy now? :diablo:
                              It's obvious there were delays, what's idiotic is to think they are going to continue with the same large time values (year long delays).

                              Sukhoi has now stated it was built prototypes, etc.

                              I mean the project has been on since 2002 - so in 2006 they might have thought it would be ready to fly in 2007 or 2008. In 2008 things were more clear.

                              Comment

                              • Looking
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 104

                                Originally posted by dionis View Post
                                It's obvious there were delays, what's idiotic is to think they are going to continue with the same large time values (year long delays).
                                Yes several year long delays already after dates were promised. Can you not see why many are not convinced there will not be another delay. It dosn't mean squat what Suckhoi say either unfortunatly as we have had far more senior sources then them say it will be ready to fly in 2007 and 2008 only to be proven wrong. Don't whine at us when people laugh at you when the first flight is delayed is the last thing I will say on the matter.

                                Comment

                                • dionis
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Sep 2004
                                  • 1878

                                  Originally posted by Looking View Post
                                  Yes several year long delays already after dates were promised. Can you not see why many are not convinced there will not be another delay. It dosn't mean squat what Suckhoi say either unfortunatly as we have had far more senior sources then them say it will be ready to fly in 2007 and 2008 only to be proven wrong. Don't whine at us when people laugh at you when the first flight is delayed is the last thing I will say on the matter.
                                  Sukhoi is the "most senior" source for when the jet will fly.

                                  With that being said, what dates were promised before? None. Just years they thought it would be ready. Just this week, we got ACTUAL dates.

                                  Comment

                                  • RSM55
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2005
                                    • 416

                                    My final words in this thread

                                    Dear all,
                                    since the beginning of this Saga, I have tried to post only reliable, unbiased and truthful information about the programme of the "5th gen. fighter", PAK FA, T-50, whatever it might be called and is called by the "community" and the gullible media and "experts". Obviously, because of the aforementioned ethical prerequisites, I haven't posted that much.
                                    For the time being, I am relatively proud to say that none of my "supputations", suppositions and information that I have provided has proven untrue. Indeed, it seems that Zelin himself confirms (for example) the all-aspect sensor fusion I have talked about more than a year ago.
                                    I have also written here that the "PAK FA" or whatever will be "more like the YF-23 than the F-22". I have also stated that those who expect some kind of flying sauski or Firefox will be disappointed, as the RuAF requirements for the PAK FA differ from USAF requirements for the Raptor. I have also pointed out that the main breakthrough, and the main challenge, of the PAK FA programme will not be new aerodynamics, amazing stealth or incredible overall characteristics, but simply total sensor fusion and the implementation of brand new weapon systems and a very potent sensor/RWR/ECM suite.

                                    Why do I point that out again?
                                    Because this post is going to be my last post on this thread until the subject matter will publicly fly.
                                    Why that?
                                    I am sick and tired of reading speculations and trying to temperate them.
                                    I am sick and tired of seeing artists renderings, some good, some less, being naively discussed as if the honorable person who devised them on his or her PC between 2am and a bottle of Moskovskaya (or Chteau Rotschild 1956 for that matter, I don't care) had the Sukhoi blueprints next to the keyboard.
                                    And on top of it, I am very, very tired of all the nationalist, pro-Russian, anti-Russian, pseudo-pro-anti-Russian redneck whatever ramblings that seem to enthuse the hon. members of this board much more than thinking about the next word they will use in order to describe their honorable feelings.

                                    My last input:
                                    Russian mass-media are not autocracy-driven, or democratic, or free, or unfree - they are just (for defense matter) mostly lame and incompetent.
                                    Zelin has talked about 3 "5th gen. programmes".
                                    He meant: PAK FA, PAK DA, future land-attack UCAV. No it's not the Skat.
                                    He did not mention any "august 2009" deadline. The journalists made that up.

                                    The said programme is doing well and progressing fast.
                                    The airframes are all but ready.
                                    Integration will be a big challenge, but I'm confident.
                                    And again, "the first flight will not be the first"

                                    Now.
                                    If I wouldn't be so upset about what I read and if I would claim some recognition and respect, I would certainly humbly ask the moderators to close the thread till next summer at least because it's getting nowhere.
                                    But as I'm certainly not - please go on and speculate further and further - the sky's the limit.
                                    Till you see the real thing you all dream about, sometime next year, and then start an infinite number of threads like "PAK FA (it will be Su-.. ... by the time) vs F-22", "PAK FA is a hoax" or "PAK FA is not really stealthy (for flamers)".

                                    All in all, God bless you all, let 2009 be better than the pundits say it will be and clear skies ahead.

                                    Comment

                                    • Looking
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Dec 2008
                                      • 104

                                      Originally posted by RSM55 View Post
                                      My final words in this thread


                                      I am sick and tired of seeing artists renderings, some good, some less, being naively discussed as if the honorable person who devised them on his or her PC between 2am and a bottle of Moskovskaya (or Chteau Rotschild 1956 for that matter, I don't care) had the Sukhoi blueprints next to the keyboard.
                                      I agree with the Paralay drawings becoming too discussed, its a bit like fan fiction for the PAK-FA and very silly when people take it seriously but his last drawing was very good in an artisitic way i thought.

                                      Comment

                                      • ante_climax
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2008
                                        • 2793

                                        I have asked this quesiton before, without getting an answer, So i am going to ask it again. All the shown designs show a similar approach to the F 22. What happend to the much hyped about Active Plasma stealth that was being discussed a lot ?

                                        Comment

                                        • Guest's Avatar
                                          Guest

                                          Well, Russia is still such a closed society that it won't even release a simple drawing let alone a picture of the forth coming test models. So, its really hard to even speculate to the most rudimentary elements of the design..........

                                          Comment

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