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A-A kill over Ossetia? (Su-27 vs Su-25)

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    A-A kill over Ossetia? (Su-27 vs Su-25)

    Today I have read in the Czech L+K magazine that Georgian Su-25 Frogfoot was shot down by an R-73 fired by Russian Su-27. The incident should have happened on Aug-09-2008 over Tskhinkvali and the Georgian pilot has reportedly ejected and was subsequently executed by Ossetian rebels.

    Anyone has more information about the incident?

    #2
    Fake.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by bob909 View Post
      Fake.
      Conclusive evidence!

      Close the thread please!








      Comment


        #4
        I dont want start serious discussion here because the topicstarter is flamer.

        There was no evidence of using Su-27 by Russians neither on this date nor any other one. The episode with "executed Georgian pilot" was also fake. Few days after the incident downed Russian pilot told about friendly fire by Strela and how Ossetians almost executed him.

        So its better to close this thread before new flame conspirology war was started.

        Comment


          #5
          The topic starter isn't a flamer. He's a long standing member of the forum and has contributed useful information in the past.

          If he says he read about it in a Czech or Slovak magazine it is worthwhile giving him the benefit of the doubt.

          Flex,

          How good is the reporting in this L+K magazine usually? I know that Serbian aviation magazines have, in the past, reported stories that they (more or less) copy/pasted from other publications without going to any effort whatsoever to check whether they are grounded in fact.
          Regards, Ivan

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ink View Post
            The topic starter isn't a flamer. He's a long standing member of the forum and has contributed useful information in the past.

            If he says he read about it in a Czech or Slovak magazine it is worthwhile giving him the benefit of the doubt.

            Flex,

            How good is the reporting in this L+K magazine usually? I know that Serbian aviation magazines have, in the past, reported stories that they (more or less) copy/pasted from other publications without going to any effort whatsoever to check whether they are grounded in fact.
            I honestly don't know. I didn't even buy the mag, was just waiting in a local supermarket for my girlfriend to find a toy for her dog so I took a L+K mag from the shelf and had a look inside. They have dedicated three pages or so to Ossetian war and brought some claims I have never heard of before. Except the Su-27 vs Su-25 incident they also mentioned an upgraded Elbit Su-25KM Scorpion(!) having been shot down by a Russian Strela SAM. Have Georgians used their sole prototype in combat?

            I personally would not describe the L+K mag as pro-Russian biased, rather the opposite is true. But whether the author bothered to check the facts is something I cannot confirm. Finally, that is why I brought the question here so that we can discuss the matter together.
            Last edited by flex297; 16th October 2008, 12:54.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by bob909 View Post
              I dont want start serious discussion here because the topicstarter is flamer.

              So its better to close this thread before new flame conspirology war was started.
              There is no problem with my flaming, you just seem to have not swallowed the beating your wannabe-arguments took in the Israel planning to bomb Iran? thread.

              If you have a problem with the topic, the solution is simple: don't come here.

              Comment


                #8
                I personally would not describe the L+K mag as pro-Russian biased, rather the opposite is true.
                Certainly the part about the execution of the Georgian pilot seems to corroborate this

                Personally, I don't think a FLANKER downing a FROGFOOT is so far fetched but I would rather wait for more convincing evidence. FLANKERs were deployed to the theatre for air superiority and it seems realistic enough that they found targets to attack - nonetheless, so little is actually known about events during this brief conflict that I would prefer to have at least two, if not several, reliable sources on any one incident before being confident about its actual taking place.
                Regards, Ivan

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ink View Post
                  Certainly the part about the execution of the Georgian pilot seems to corroborate this

                  Personally, I don't think a FLANKER downing a FROGFOOT is so far fetched but I would rather wait for more convincing evidence. FLANKERs were deployed to the theatre for air superiority and it seems realistic enough that they found targets to attack - nonetheless, so little is actually known about events during this brief conflict that I would prefer to have at least two, if not several, reliable sources on any one incident before being confident about its actual taking place.
                  Looks like nobody except L+K has reported anything similar. Sounds very suspicious... It's probably a hoax.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Read similar story (except the execution) during the conflict in the different threads that ACIG.org formed to cover the conflict...

                    So you have at least two sources now!.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Pit View Post
                      Read similar story (except the execution) during the conflict in the different threads that ACIG.org formed to cover the conflict...

                      So you have at least two sources now!.
                      I have seen no evidence that Su-27's were used but it is not inconceivable. I was under the impression that the Georgians only had one Scorpion anyway and that was a prototype?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by sealordlawrence View Post
                        I have seen no evidence that Su-27's were used but it is not inconceivable. I was under the impression that the Georgians only had one Scorpion anyway and that was a prototype?
                        No you didn't see any videos of any Su-27s is what you mean, lots of sources reported that Flankers were flying over Tskhinvali to maintain air superiority.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by sealordlawrence View Post
                          I have seen no evidence that Su-27's were used but it is not inconceivable. I was under the impression that the Georgians only had one Scorpion anyway and that was a prototype?
                          Zhuravliks were on the theater, list of regiments that give assets in the georgian campaign includes:

                          3 GvIAP
                          929 GLITS
                          4 TsBPiPLS
                          182 TsBPiBP
                          2457 ABP SDRLO
                          325 OTBVP
                          485 OVPBU
                          368 ShAP
                          899 GvShAP
                          455, 559, 959 BAP
                          11, 47 GvORAP
                          52, 121, 200 Gv TBAP

                          Come on buddy, at least 3 GvIAP is Flanker user, based on Krymsk!.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            It seems pretty certain that FLANKERs were deployed to the theatre - that at least has been reported by several sources. Whether they shot something down is, however, a different matter all together.
                            Regards, Ivan

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks, folks, that is exactly the type of reasonable debate I was hoping for!

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Georgia had at the very least 3 Skorpions. "18", "22" and "23"

                                Entire GeoAF as follows

                                Су-25 №№ "03", "16" + 17, 07
                                Су-25КМ №№ "18", "22", "23"
                                Су-25УБ №№ "20", "21"
                                Ми-24П №№ "04", "07", "08"
                                Ми-24В №№ "01", "03", "05", "06", "09", +02
                                Ми-8 №№ "09", "10", "32" "41" + 19, 06, 46, 45
                                Ми-14 № "08" + 07
                                UH-1 №№ "23", "24", "25", "27" + 21, 20, 22, 26
                                L-39 №№ "71". "72", "73", "74"

                                Flex, who did L+K quoted or referred to when they posted the Su-27 vs Su-25 info? What is their source?
                                RS-12M2 Delivery Service: worldwide, on time, guaranteed.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Zmey Smirnoff View Post
                                  Georgia had at the very least 3 Skorpions. "18", "22" and "23"

                                  Entire GeoAF as follows

                                  Су-25 №№ "03", "16" + 17, 07
                                  Су-25КМ №№ "18", "22", "23"
                                  Су-25УБ №№ "20", "21"
                                  Ми-24П №№ "04", "07", "08"
                                  Ми-24В №№ "01", "03", "05", "06", "09", +02
                                  Ми-8 №№ "09", "10", "32" "41" + 19, 06, 46, 45
                                  Ми-14 № "08" + 07
                                  UH-1 №№ "23", "24", "25", "27" + 21, 20, 22, 26
                                  L-39 №№ "71". "72", "73", "74"

                                  Flex, who did L+K quoted or referred to when they posted the Su-27 vs Su-25 info? What is their source?
                                  What were their losses in air and on ground?

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Have this phot of a Georgian Mi-24 destroyed on the ground. Don't know the location.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      ^^
                                      Senaki



                                      ""What were their losses in air and on ground?""


                                      We know for a fact - 1 Mi-24 bort 05
                                      Everything else is unknown, until proven otherwise.
                                      RS-12M2 Delivery Service: worldwide, on time, guaranteed.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Zmey Smirnoff View Post
                                        Georgia had at the very least 3 Skorpions. "18", "22" and "23"
                                        Zmey, you are absolutely correct! Never noticed that before but I got a photo of their 18+22 together and they indeed sport the antenna setup of Su-25KM. Even their HUDs seem different.

                                        Regarding the sources, I need to return to the store and get the mag as I did not buy it.
                                        Last edited by flex297; 17th October 2008, 14:15.

                                        Comment


                                         

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