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By: 16th October 2008 at 02:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Fake.
By: 16th October 2008 at 02:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Fake.
Conclusive evidence!
Close the thread please!
:rolleyes:
By: 16th October 2008 at 10:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I dont want start serious discussion here because the topicstarter is flamer.
There was no evidence of using Su-27 by Russians neither on this date nor any other one. The episode with "executed Georgian pilot" was also fake. Few days after the incident downed Russian pilot told about friendly fire by Strela and how Ossetians almost executed him.
So its better to close this thread before new flame conspirology war was started.
By: 16th October 2008 at 12:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The topic starter isn't a flamer. He's a long standing member of the forum and has contributed useful information in the past.
If he says he read about it in a Czech or Slovak magazine it is worthwhile giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Flex,
How good is the reporting in this L+K magazine usually? I know that Serbian aviation magazines have, in the past, reported stories that they (more or less) copy/pasted from other publications without going to any effort whatsoever to check whether they are grounded in fact.
By: 16th October 2008 at 12:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The topic starter isn't a flamer. He's a long standing member of the forum and has contributed useful information in the past.If he says he read about it in a Czech or Slovak magazine it is worthwhile giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Flex,
How good is the reporting in this L+K magazine usually? I know that Serbian aviation magazines have, in the past, reported stories that they (more or less) copy/pasted from other publications without going to any effort whatsoever to check whether they are grounded in fact.
I honestly don't know. I didn't even buy the mag, was just waiting in a local supermarket for my girlfriend to find a toy for her dog so I took a L+K mag from the shelf and had a look inside. They have dedicated three pages or so to Ossetian war and brought some claims I have never heard of before. Except the Su-27 vs Su-25 incident they also mentioned an upgraded Elbit Su-25KM Scorpion(!) having been shot down by a Russian Strela SAM. Have Georgians used their sole prototype in combat? :confused:
I personally would not describe the L+K mag as pro-Russian biased, rather the opposite is true. But whether the author bothered to check the facts is something I cannot confirm. Finally, that is why I brought the question here so that we can discuss the matter together.
By: 16th October 2008 at 12:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I dont want start serious discussion here because the topicstarter is flamer.So its better to close this thread before new flame conspirology war was started.
There is no problem with my flaming, you just seem to have not swallowed the beating your wannabe-arguments took in the Israel planning to bomb Iran? thread.
If you have a problem with the topic, the solution is simple: don't come here.
By: 16th October 2008 at 23:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I personally would not describe the L+K mag as pro-Russian biased, rather the opposite is true.
Certainly the part about the execution of the Georgian pilot seems to corroborate this :)
Personally, I don't think a FLANKER downing a FROGFOOT is so far fetched but I would rather wait for more convincing evidence. FLANKERs were deployed to the theatre for air superiority and it seems realistic enough that they found targets to attack - nonetheless, so little is actually known about events during this brief conflict that I would prefer to have at least two, if not several, reliable sources on any one incident before being confident about its actual taking place.
By: 17th October 2008 at 01:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Certainly the part about the execution of the Georgian pilot seems to corroborate this :)Personally, I don't think a FLANKER downing a FROGFOOT is so far fetched but I would rather wait for more convincing evidence. FLANKERs were deployed to the theatre for air superiority and it seems realistic enough that they found targets to attack - nonetheless, so little is actually known about events during this brief conflict that I would prefer to have at least two, if not several, reliable sources on any one incident before being confident about its actual taking place.
Looks like nobody except L+K has reported anything similar. Sounds very suspicious... It's probably a hoax.
By: 17th October 2008 at 03:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Read similar story (except the execution) during the conflict in the different threads that ACIG.org formed to cover the conflict...
So you have at least two sources now!.
By: 17th October 2008 at 06:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Read similar story (except the execution) during the conflict in the different threads that ACIG.org formed to cover the conflict...So you have at least two sources now!.
I have seen no evidence that Su-27's were used but it is not inconceivable. I was under the impression that the Georgians only had one Scorpion anyway and that was a prototype?
By: 17th October 2008 at 07:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I have seen no evidence that Su-27's were used but it is not inconceivable. I was under the impression that the Georgians only had one Scorpion anyway and that was a prototype?
No you didn't see any videos of any Su-27s is what you mean, lots of sources reported that Flankers were flying over Tskhinvali to maintain air superiority.
By: 17th October 2008 at 08:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I have seen no evidence that Su-27's were used but it is not inconceivable. I was under the impression that the Georgians only had one Scorpion anyway and that was a prototype?
Zhuravliks were on the theater, list of regiments that give assets in the georgian campaign includes:
3 GvIAP
929 GLITS
4 TsBPiPLS
182 TsBPiBP
2457 ABP SDRLO
325 OTBVP
485 OVPBU
368 ShAP
899 GvShAP
455, 559, 959 BAP
11, 47 GvORAP
52, 121, 200 Gv TBAP
Come on buddy, at least 3 GvIAP is Flanker user, based on Krymsk!.
By: 17th October 2008 at 09:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-It seems pretty certain that FLANKERs were deployed to the theatre - that at least has been reported by several sources. Whether they shot something down is, however, a different matter all together.
By: 17th October 2008 at 12:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Thanks, folks, that is exactly the type of reasonable debate I was hoping for!
By: 17th October 2008 at 12:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Georgia had at the very least 3 Skorpions. "18", "22" and "23"
Entire GeoAF as follows
Су-25 №№ "03", "16" + 17, 07
Су-25КМ №№ "18", "22", "23"
Су-25УБ №№ "20", "21"
Ми-24П №№ "04", "07", "08"
Ми-24В №№ "01", "03", "05", "06", "09", +02
Ми-8 №№ "09", "10", "32" "41" + 19, 06, 46, 45
Ми-14 № "08" + 07
UH-1 №№ "23", "24", "25", "27" + 21, 20, 22, 26
L-39 №№ "71". "72", "73", "74"
Flex, who did L+K quoted or referred to when they posted the Su-27 vs Su-25 info? What is their source?
By: 17th October 2008 at 13:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Georgia had at the very least 3 Skorpions. "18", "22" and "23"Entire GeoAF as follows
Су-25 №№ "03", "16" + 17, 07
Су-25КМ №№ "18", "22", "23"
Су-25УБ №№ "20", "21"
Ми-24П №№ "04", "07", "08"
Ми-24В №№ "01", "03", "05", "06", "09", +02
Ми-8 №№ "09", "10", "32" "41" + 19, 06, 46, 45
Ми-14 № "08" + 07
UH-1 №№ "23", "24", "25", "27" + 21, 20, 22, 26
L-39 №№ "71". "72", "73", "74"Flex, who did L+K quoted or referred to when they posted the Su-27 vs Su-25 info? What is their source?
What were their losses in air and on ground?
By: 17th October 2008 at 13:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Have this phot of a Georgian Mi-24 destroyed on the ground. Don't know the location.
By: 17th October 2008 at 13:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-^^
Senaki
""What were their losses in air and on ground?""
We know for a fact - 1 Mi-24 bort 05 :D
Everything else is unknown, until proven otherwise.
By: 17th October 2008 at 14:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Georgia had at the very least 3 Skorpions. "18", "22" and "23"
Zmey, you are absolutely correct! Never noticed that before but I got a photo of their 18+22 together and they indeed sport the antenna setup of Su-25KM. Even their HUDs seem different.
Regarding the sources, I need to return to the store and get the mag as I did not buy it.
By: 17th October 2008 at 14:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The Georgians have been very 'discreet' about their losses... Which might indicate that they were significant... But it is hardly proof. Any info on this would be most welcome.
UAZ,
Do you know whether the HIND in the picture you posted was destroyed by air-power or by Russian ground forces? I expect that, had it been captured, the Russians would have hauled it off to display with the rest of their war booty but it might have been hit by artillery or similar.
EDIT: Actually, looking at the picture again, the damage seems very localised - it hardly looks like a PGM hit. Is it possible the Georgians destroyed it as they fled in order to prevent it from falling into enemy hands?
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By: flex297 - 15th October 2008 at 22:59
Today I have read in the Czech L+K magazine that Georgian Su-25 Frogfoot was shot down by an R-73 fired by Russian Su-27. The incident should have happened on Aug-09-2008 over Tskhinkvali and the Georgian pilot has reportedly ejected and was subsequently executed by Ossetian rebels.
Anyone has more information about the incident?