Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

F-104s in Star Trek

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Don Chan
    Rank V Registered User
    • Aug 2003
    • 3393

    F-104s in Star Trek

    First, if you're not a serious F-104 or Star Trek fan, you might as well skip this message.

    Second, much thanks to the blogger "hider" for the following details.

    In the ST:TOS (Star Trek: The Original Series) episode titled "Tomorrow is yesterday" (season 1, episode 19), the USS Enterprise time-slips to 1969 USA, and appears above an Omaha AFB (probably Offutt AFB, Nebraska), callsign Black Jack.
    The AFB scrambles a F-104, callsign Blue Jay 4, driven by Captain John Christopher, serial number 4857932.
    The USS Enterprise tractor-beams the F-104; it disintegrates, but the USS Enterprise beams up its pilot.

    I'm a casual fan of Star Trek (IMO, Captain Kirk rules the galaxy; although in Star Trek games I used to play with friends, I always used Klingon warships), but not a big fan of the F-104 (personally, I prefer mud-movers or fighter-attackers, not fighter-interceptors), I've sometimes wondered whether the F-104 serial number is visible in that episode?

    A couple days ago, hider actually took a look, and scribbled down the markings.
    It's also been aeons since I last watched that episode, so I don't know whether the F-104 scenes are stock footages, or the ST:TOS actors and staff actually filmed on location at an AFB?

    #1: WRT the F-104 in the opening, on the tail fin is "70914".
    On the fuselage is "FG-914".
    On the right-side tank is "551-xxx" in yellow.
    On the right wing is "USAF".

    #2: WRT a parked F-104, on the fuselage is "FG-915".

    #3: WRT another F-104 (probably driven by Captain Christopher), on the fuselage is "FG-926".
    On the tail fin is "70926".

    According to
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow_Is_Yesterday
    this episode was first aired on 26 January 1967, so it was filmed in or before January 1967.

    So, will some F-104 experts here take a look at these serial numbers, and check these three F-104s belonged to which squadron?
    And whether they were (I presume) stationed somewhere near Hollywood, instead of Offutt AFB?

    BTW, I searched and noticed
    http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...rek#post971532
    in the Historic Aviation forum, mentioned this episode, but IMO, the F-104 as a jet fighter, isn't as historic as the WWII propeller aircraft. Besides, from the few times I posted in that forum, I'd the impression that its mods are less tolerant than the mods here.
    Last edited by Don Chan; 22nd September 2008, 15:19.
    Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

    http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/
  • Slowpoke
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 47

    #2
    Originally posted by Don Chan View Post

    (IMO, Captain Kirk rules the galaxy
    Great post, but i'm afraid its common knowledge Captain Picard was the greatist starship captain of all time have you tried the 'startrek wiki' not wikipedia but the wiki for startrek, i forget the name though

    Comment

    • KKM57P
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Mar 2006
      • 668

      #3
      http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Portal:Main
      What may sound like a fairy tale today may be tomorrow's reality.

      Comment

      • LoofahBoy
        Grab the bucket
        • Oct 2007
        • 502

        #4
        but i'm afraid its common knowledge Captain Picard was the greatist starship captain of all time
        You kiddin?! Kirk kicks ass!

        Comment

        • Jolanta Nowak
          Rank 4 Registered User
          • Feb 2007
          • 207

          #5
          Originally posted by Slowpoke View Post
          Great post, but i'm afraid its common knowledge Captain Picard was the greatist starship captain of all time have you tried the 'startrek wiki' not wikipedia but the wiki for startrek, i forget the name though

          ... don't you mean 'will be'...?

          Comment

          • djcross
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 5394

            #6
            FG-914 and FG-915 (and probably 926) were assigned to the 479th Tactical Fighter Wing at George AFB near Victorville California in the early-mid 1960s. George AFB is about 150 km northeast of Hollywood. In 1969 when ST was running, the 479 TFW was in VietNam and the jets were painted camouflage.

            Comment

            • ELP
              ELP
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 2333

              #7
              The enemy is closing in on us ready to fire....

              Captain Picard: "Lets go to the briefing room and discuss their feelings."


              I do love the one episode where one admiral puts Picard on the carpet for letting a known enemy go.



              Kirk was a true U.S. Navy like captain: A real arrogant ass at times but he got the job done.

              Comment

              • frankvw
                Moderator
                • Jan 2000
                • 6344

                #8
                To all the action figure collectors: for the Star Trek convention, it's in General Discussion ! :diablo:
                Regards,

                Frank

                Comment

                • Flying-A
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 461

                  #9
                  Early in the episode, Spock warns that the interceptor might be carrying nuclear missiles capable of inflicting serious damage on the ship. That would mean either the Douglas AIR-2 Genie (actually unguided and fuze detonated) or the Hughes AIM-26A Nuclear Falcon.

                  The F-104 was cleared to carry the Genie, but never did operationally. The AIM-26A saw only limited deployment with the F-102. Thus, a more thorough search of the Enterprise's data banks would have found that the F-104 posed little threat to the ship.

                  But then there would have been no episode (with a dumb waiter in the transporter room!).

                  Comment

                  • sferrin
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 9981

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ELP View Post
                    The enemy is closing in on us ready to fire....

                    Captain Picard: "Lets go to the briefing room and discuss their feelings."


                    I do love the one episode where one admiral puts Picard on the carpet for letting a known enemy go.



                    Kirk was a true U.S. Navy like captain: A real arrogant ass at times but he got the job done.
                    Eh, blew up the Enterprise after Khan shot the crap out of it doesn't sound like "got it done" to me. On the other hand the episode with the Enterprise fighting a Romulan ship commanded by Spock's dad was one of the better fights in sci-fi TV IMO.
                    A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

                    flag@whitehouse.gov

                    Comment

                    • sferrin
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Apr 2005
                      • 9981

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Flying-A View Post
                      Early in the episode, Spock warns that the interceptor might be carrying nuclear missiles capable of inflicting serious damage on the ship. That would mean either the Douglas AIR-2 Genie (actually unguided and fuze detonated) or the Hughes AIM-26A Nuclear Falcon.

                      The F-104 was cleared to carry the Genie, but never did operationally. The AIM-26A saw only limited deployment with the F-102. Thus, a more thorough search of the Enterprise's data banks would have found that the F-104 posed little threat to the ship.

                      But then there would have been no episode (with a dumb waiter in the transporter room!).
                      They shoulda had an F-102 or F-106.
                      A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

                      flag@whitehouse.gov

                      Comment

                      • Don Chan
                        Rank V Registered User
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 3393

                        #12
                        djcross and Flying-A:

                        "Thank you, Mr Spock."

                        ] FG-914 and FG-915 (and probably 926) were assigned to the 479th Tactical Fighter Wing at George AFB near Victorville California in the early-mid 1960s.

                        That ep was filmed in or before January 1967, not 1969, so it still may have been filmed on location at George AFB?

                        ] Thus, a more thorough search of the Enterprise's data banks would have found that the F-104 posed little threat to the ship.

                        20th century Earth history, before the nuclear hot war at the end of the century, is probably fragmentarily recorded in Star Fleet starship computers... although IMO Kirk, McCoy, Scott, and maybe even Chekov are surprisingly knowledgeable about Earth history, from ancient (Greek and Roman) to 20th century.

                        Anyway. I just noticed from this thread
                        http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3...arfighter.html
                        that a chap recently (last month) rendered a 3D CG of this particular F-104. I'll spam him an e-mail.

                        *OFF-TOPIC ALERT*

                        ] but i'm afraid its common knowledge Captain Picard was the greatist starship captain of all time

                        To quote an ancient Chinese proverb, "Different strokes for different folks."

                        ] Eh, blew up the Enterprise after Khan shot the crap out of it doesn't sound like "got it done" to me.

                        Agreed. Saavik's right, and Spock's careless to suppress her, when she reminds Kirk that approaching (without yellow alert) the silent USS Reliant is risky, as Kirk's assuming the USS Reliant still has her Star Fleet crew.
                        (I recently re-watched the USS Enterprise vs USS Reliant battles in (cough) Youtube (cough).)

                        ] Kirk was a true U.S. Navy like captain: A real arrogant ass at times but he got the job done.

                        As a Canadian, I've no comment about McCain-Palin.

                        ] On the other hand the episode with the Enterprise fighting a Romulan ship commanded by Spock's dad

                        IIRC, Mark Lenard (RIP) played all three species: Klingon, Romulan, and Vulcan.
                        Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                        http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                        Comment

                        • Peter G
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 889

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Flying-A View Post
                          Early in the episode, Spock warns that the interceptor might be carrying nuclear missiles capable of inflicting serious damage on the ship. That would mean either the Douglas AIR-2 Genie (actually unguided and fuze detonated) or the Hughes AIM-26A Nuclear Falcon.

                          The F-104 was cleared to carry the Genie, but never did operationally. The AIM-26A saw only limited deployment with the F-102. Thus, a more thorough search of the Enterprise's data banks would have found that the F-104 posed little threat to the ship.

                          But then there would have been no episode (with a dumb waiter in the transporter room!).

                          Genie had no fusing, the warhead was detonated by a timer: http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/r-2.html

                          US fighters did not carry nuclear-tipped AAM till DEFCON 2 is reached. As mentioned in this book: http://www.amazon.com/DEFCON-2-Stand...e/dp/047167022

                          Chalk it up to the shows alternative reality! F-104/Genie trials: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyUcQ...eature=related

                          Love this show and cannot wait till the Remastered series is released in Australia - Series 1 in November: http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/801176

                          Cough, cough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2ct...eature=related

                          Comment

                          • Don Chan
                            Rank V Registered User
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 3393

                            #14
                            http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=X_rWM2...eature=related

                            Side By Side Comparison of Star Trek Tomorrow Is Yesterday

                            http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=b8lsBB...eature=related

                            GAG REEL-Tommorow is Yesterday

                            (No F-104 in that second vid though.)

                            WRT George AFB,
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Air_Force_Base
                            says the 479th TFW:
                            "The wing conducted F-104 replacement training until early 1967. Transferred all F-104s in July 1967."

                            This ep was first aired on 26 January 1967, so the F-104 footages in that ep could've been filmed on location. 8D

                            WRT F-104C 914, 915, and 926; "F-104 Vietnam Losses" at
                            http://www.arizonawrecks.com/allthin...=1219970668308
                            says:

                            "F-104C
                            57-0914
                            (435th TFS, 8th TFW, Udorn Air Base, Thailand)
                            16 January 1967, this Starfighter suffered an engine failure during a CAP mission and crashed in Thailand, the pilot survived."

                            And it doesn't mention 915 or 926.

                            The book "US Military Aircraft Mishaps 1950-2004" by Scramble/Dutch Aviation Society (a fellow monthly contributor to the Air Forces Monthly mag)
                            http://www.scramble.nl/mag/shop/mish...card-world.htm
                            lists: 926 crash-landed at George AFB on 17 June 1965, and consequently destroyed/scrapped.
                            (Coincidence? IMO, Mulder and Scully should investigate whether this was a cover-up.)

                            And the book doesn't mention 915, so it could've peacefully retired?
                            Last edited by Don Chan; 21st September 2008, 05:38.
                            Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                            http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                            Comment

                            • ST-21
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2008
                              • 269

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Slowpoke View Post
                              Great post, but i'm afraid its common knowledge Captain Picard was the greatist starship captain of all time have you tried the 'startrek wiki' not wikipedia but the wiki for startrek, i forget the name though
                              'Common knowledge' is often wrong. Allow me to ellucidate:



                              THE 25 TOP REASONS WHY PICARD IS CLAIMED TO BE BETTER THAN KIRK
                              (and why they're wrong)

                              25 When Picard marries a couple, he doesn't
                              lose the groom in battle.

                              25 When Picard marries a couple, he puts them to sleep with his speech.


                              24 Picard can speak in more languages than Kirk
                              has ever heard.

                              24 Kirk doesn't need to know many languages--he makes everyone learn His!


                              23 Kirk was the first captain to see a Romulan, but
                              Picard went to Romulus & kicked their butts.

                              23 When Kirk was captured by the Romulans, he escaped AND stole their cloaking device to boot! . Picard had to
                              be rescued. Besides, Kirk wouldn't have fallen for the Romulan's trick and been captured
                              in the first place--he would have sent in a red shirt


                              22 Picard was selective in his associations; Kirk never met a (female) alien he didn't like...

                              22 This is a problem?


                              21 Kirk bested an old, tired has-been called Apollo,
                              while Picard has bested an omnipotent being several
                              times.

                              21 Each time Kirk gets rid of an omnipotent being (Apollo, Trelane,
                              V'ger, et al), they stay gone. Picard's only one (Q) keeps coming
                              back.


                              20 Picard can be vulnerable with women.

                              20 Kirk doesn't need to be vulnerable with women


                              19 Picard has better taste in recreation (who needs a
                              local bar when you've got a holodeck?).

                              19 But when someone Kirk meets in a bar leaves with him, they'll still be there even
                              if the electricity goes off


                              18 Picard looks better as a detective than Kirk does
                              as a gangster.

                              18 Kirk sounds better as a gangster than Picard does as a detective


                              17 Picard got to crown the leader of the Klingon high
                              council.

                              17 Kirk got to save the entire Klingon empire--After escaping from a
                              Klingon prison planet!


                              16 Picard saved the Federation from the space bugs.

                              16 Picard led the Borg to the Federation


                              15 Picard became a Borg.

                              15 If Kirk had first encountered the Borg, after firing and receiving
                              reports that the enemy was 50% damaged, he wouldn't have called for a
                              conference giving them to repair themselves. He would have fired again
                              and done 100%. Then, he wouldn't have been turned into the Tin
                              Woodsman. He also would have seduced the Borg Queen.
                              Please also note how Picard defeated the Borg: He put
                              them to sleep [review point 25]


                              14 Picard can quote Shakespeare & doesn't need
                              spectacles to read it.

                              14 Kirk can quote Abraham Lincoln. You'd think Picard would at least know
                              some French authors.


                              13 Picard can fence.

                              13 Kirk built a cannon out of available material laying around and
                              fired diamonds into the hearts of his enemies. What more needs to be
                              said?

                              12 Picard makes a better Romulan than Kirk does.

                              12 Kirk makes a better Indian


                              11 Picard is a wine connaisseur.

                              11 Kirk can drink anything


                              10 Picard punches Ferengi as well as Kirk ever punched
                              the wimpy Klingons of the first series.

                              10 Picard is afraid to pick on someone his own size, while Klingons are
                              bigger than humans. Please remember that in Star Trek: Generations, when Soran punched out Picard, Jean-Luc's solution was to go off
                              and get Kirk to come take care of business.


                              9 Picard never let a bald midget in a dwarf ship with
                              a scary dummy fake him out for an entire episode.

                              9 Kirk never let thieves take over his entire ship (While It Was In a
                              Federation Dock, no less)


                              8 Picard didn't let some female with a loose screw
                              take over his body & his ship while sticking him
                              in her body.

                              8 Kirk would never let a fictional charcter that his own ship created
                              take over the ship, and wouldn't be stupid enough to give him the
                              command codes


                              7 Picard hasn't EVER had to spend an entire episode
                              ridding his ship of furry hairballs which reproduce.

                              7 Kirk hasn't EVER had to spend an entire episode ridding his ship of
                              a few thieves WHEN HE HAD A COMMUNICATOR IN HIS POCKET THE
                              WHOLE TIME. By the way, you'll note who Kirk sicced the furballs on


                              6 Picard doesn't lose as many red shirts.

                              6 Picard doesn't have as many red shirts. Have you ever noted,
                              though, that while Kirk loses more no-name red shirts, Picard keeps
                              losing important people?


                              5 Picard has killed Klingons in hand to hand combat
                              on several different occasions.

                              5 Kirk has thrown Klingons into the depths of an exploding planet;
                              and Then stolen their ship!


                              4 Picard has broken the Prime Directive at least a
                              dozen times.

                              4 Kirk: "Prime directive? What Prime Directive"?


                              3 Picard can swear in Klingon.

                              3 Kirks swears AT Klingnons


                              2 Kirk never climbed a turbo shaft with a foxy lady
                              & got it on in the bowels of the ship.

                              2 Picard never got it on on a prison planet, in a jail cell or in a teepee.


                              1 Kirk never mind melded with a Vulcan to
                              help the VULCAN with his self control.

                              1 Helped with self control? Kirk rescued a VULCAN's stolen brain, got
                              it back in the Vulcan's head, and Still had time to get the girl!
                              Last edited by ST-21; 23rd September 2008, 05:27.

                              Comment

                              • sferrin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Apr 2005
                                • 9981

                                #16
                                Dude, electroshock therapy can help you with that.
                                A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

                                flag@whitehouse.gov

                                Comment

                                • Don Chan
                                  Rank V Registered User
                                  • Aug 2003
                                  • 3393

                                  #17
                                  915 peacefully retired.

                                  http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1957.html
                                  says:

                                  "57-910/930 Lockheed F-104C-10-LO Starfighter
                                  c/n 383-1227/1247
                                  915 at Lackland AFB, TX. Now at Heritage Air Park (Plant 42), Palmdale, CA."

                                  And it doesn't mention 914 or 926.

                                  Seeing is believing: photo of F-104C 70915 at Joe Davies Heritage Airpark at Palmdale Plant 42, California.
                                  http://www.cityofpalmdale.org/airpar...raft-F104.html
                                  http://www.cityofpalmdale.org/airpark/graphics/F104.jpg
                                  Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                                  http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                                  Comment

                                  • Slowpoke
                                    Member
                                    • Sep 2008
                                    • 47

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by ST-21 View Post
                                    23 When Kirk was captured by the Romulans, he escaped AND stole their cloaking device to boot! . Picard had to
                                    be rescued. Besides, Kirk wouldn't have fallen for the Romulan's trick and been captured
                                    in the first place--he would have sent in a red shirt
                                    http://www.clicktracks.com/insidetra..._analytics.php

                                    Red shirt deaths analysis

                                    Comment

                                    • J Boyle
                                      With malice towards none
                                      • Oct 2004
                                      • 9673

                                      #19
                                      It's been years since I saw the Star Trek episode, but I'm sure the F-104 shots were stock footage. Star Trek was always fighting costs, so they didn't do any more location work than they had to.


                                      The exterior scene of the base going "on alert" is from the early 60s Rock Hudson & Rod Taylor film "A Gathgering of Eagles".
                                      There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

                                      Comment

                                      • hawkdriver05
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Mar 2005
                                        • 1372

                                        #20
                                        When Capt Christopher was beamed onto the ship.......why was he standing when he materialized and not in the sitting position? No WAY one can stand upright in an F-104 cockpit!

                                        Comment

                                        Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                        Collapse

                                         

                                        Working...
                                        X