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PLAAF News, Photos and Speculation #12

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  • Deino
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Originally posted by J-7 Hotdog View Post
    well that J-10's radome isnt angled either, the folding line is still at the same place.. the paint is just different.

    pictures of the above aesa aircraft in primer don't show any differences in paint angles, or whatever

    ...
    The J-10A's radome isn't angled ... but the B's is, and for the colour I don't think it's only a different colour !

    If You look in comparison to the F-16E/F is has nearly the same construction !

    Deino
    Last edited by Deino; 6th April 2011, 11:24.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

    Comment

    • J-20 Hotdog
      Senior Member

      Originally posted by Deino View Post
      The J-10A's radome isn't angled ... but the B's is, and for the colour I don't think it's only a different colour !

      If You look in comparison to the F-16E/F is has nearly the same construction !

      Deino
      lol, an over analysis by chinese posters as usual.
      there are plenty of F-16E pictures that don't have that mark. plus as you know, the aesa radar in there isnt canted



      Remember, these are the same type of people who analyzed this MiG-29 being Chinese because those Bulgarian workers looked Chinese and the vegetations looked Chinese
      http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...4&postcount=15
      wishful thinking doesn't usually make it so.

      Comment

      • ante_climax
        Senior Member

        The F 16 E radar

        Comment

        • Deino
          Rank 5 Registered User

          Originally posted by J-7 Hotdog View Post
          lol, an over analysis by chinese posters as usual.
          there are plenty of F-16E pictures that don't have that mark. plus as you know, the aesa radar in there isnt canted
          ...
          Remember, these are the same type of people who analyzed this MiG-29 being Chinese because those Bulgarian workers looked Chinese and the vegetations looked Chinese ...

          wishful thinking doesn't usually make it so.
          I don't think that I'm the "typical" Chinese poster with too much "wishful thinking".

          There's just something "strange" on that radome and I try to find an answer for that (as some other's here too) ... If it would be a plain and simple slotted radar as on the "A, then why the change in design ??

          Just to fool some "typical Chinese poster with too much wishful thinking" ??

          Deino


          PS: and what the f... this strange psed MiG-29 has to do with that ovservation ???
          ...

          He was my North, my South, my East and West,
          My working week and my Sunday rest,
          My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
          I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

          The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
          Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
          Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
          For nothing now can ever come to any good.
          -------------------------------------------------
          W.H.Auden (1945)

          Comment

          • plawolf
            aggresive member

            Originally posted by Deino View Post
            I don't think that I'm the "typical" Chinese poster with too much "wishful thinking".

            There's just something "strange" on that radome and I try to find an answer for that (as some other's here too) ... If it would be a plain and simple slotted radar as on the "A, then why the change in design ??

            Just to fool some "typical Chinese poster with too much wishful thinking" ??

            Deino


            PS: and what the f... this strange psed MiG-29 has to do with that ovservation ???
            Just ignore him, what you are seeing is merely the typical behavior of a well known China-basher trying his utmost to belittle China at every opportunity.
            the true power of religion does not lie with the deity, it lies with the priests.

            Comment

            • J-20 Hotdog
              Senior Member

              Originally posted by Deino View Post
              I don't think that I'm the "typical" Chinese poster with too much "wishful thinking".

              There's just something "strange" on that radome and I try to find an answer for that (as some other's here too) ... If it would be a plain and simple slotted radar as on the "A, then why the change in design ??

              Just to fool some "typical Chinese poster with too much wishful thinking" ??

              Deino


              PS: and what the f... this strange psed MiG-29 has to do with that ovservation ???
              way to not read. did I say you're the typical Chinese poster? no, I thought you were German, but I guess I was wrong.

              the point I was showing was that the picture you showed above.. the so called comparisons are over analyzed by fanboys with wishful thinking, making something into nothing.. as we saw in that PSed Mig-29 pic.. they will try their hardest to justify pictures that they want to be true.

              don't mind PLadog, he's just bitter that people can disagree with his over optomistic views.

              Comment

              • Scooter
                Rank 5 Registered User

                Originally posted by J-7 Hotdog View Post
                lol, an over analysis by chinese posters as usual.
                there are plenty of F-16E pictures that don't have that mark. plus as you know, the aesa radar in there isnt canted



                Remember, these are the same type of people who analyzed this MiG-29 being Chinese because those Bulgarian workers looked Chinese and the vegetations looked Chinese
                http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...4&postcount=15
                wishful thinking doesn't usually make it so.
                BTW That picture is not a F-16E equipped with a APG-80 Radar...........Looks more like a USAF Test Bed for the RACR (AESA) Radar.
                F-35 Lightning II

                Comment

                • Scooter
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  Originally posted by ante_climax View Post
                  The F 16 E radar

                  In the MMRCA Contest the AESA Radar will be a large factor in the eventual winner.

                  Clearly, the Americans have a big edge with the APG-80 (F-16IN) and APG-79 (Super Hornet) Radars.
                  F-35 Lightning II

                  Comment

                  • Trident
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    Originally posted by J-7 Hotdog View Post
                    lol, an over analysis by chinese posters as usual.
                    there are plenty of F-16E pictures that don't have that mark. plus as you know, the aesa radar in there isnt canted
                    What you say is all too often true, and I'm no PRC-fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but I have to back Deino up on this one. The slanted radome bulkhead is very likely not faked (photos of the aircraft marked 01 are most probably real, IMHO) and it IS a strong indicator that the radar is an AESA. Most aircraft you mention which do not have a tilted AESA antenna (Rafale, Typhoon, F-15) are cases where the radar is supposed to be capable of being retrofitted into existing airframes. Whether that actually happens is neither here nor there, the important bit is that they were specifically designed to fit with minimal modification to the original structure. That's what made them look the way they do, even if they end up in a new-built aircraft (F-15SG).

                    The F-16E/F is a good example, the purpose-designed APG-80 is installed at an angle on the production line while the SABR radar by the same company, but designed for upgrading older Falcons, leaves the nose bulkhead unchanged. The APG-79 in the Super Hornet does have a tilted antenna by the way, it is mounted on a frame a short distance away from the actual bulkhead. As Deino mentions, there are few if any examples of mechanically scanned radars in slanted radomes, presumably because it would limit the range of motion of the antenna.

                    Why would they change the J-10's radome if they didn't change the radar? Of course, it could also be a passive phased array, but China didn't seem to be interested in pursuing that technology in the past.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Don Chan
                      Rank V Registered User

                      http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...000252-jij-int

                      31 March 2009:
                      According to Xin Hua Agency, PLAN will send a new task force to Somalia: missile destroyer Shen Zhen, missile frigate Huang Shan, and a supply ship.

                      http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...000024-rcdc-cn

                      According to an enquete done by a Commie Chinese mag, when the PLAN builds a carrier, her most popular name is Mao Ze Dong.

                      IMO, I prefer Bei Jing or Sun Zhong Shan. IMO, Jie Fang (Liberation) and Ren Min (People) are unpopular; a few years ago, the last I was in Su Zhou, Jiang Su Province, I was surprised that streets named Jie Fang and Ren Min were renamed to less Commie names.

                      http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url.../60/1h0uk.html

                      1 April 2009:
                      New ROCAF exhibition, "Air force of new century", at the ROC military history building, for five months.

                      (Looks like the model F-16 is carrying AMRAAMs and Harpoons.)

                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2008-0...nt_7916973.htm
                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/forum/2008...nt_7876085.htm

                      Article dated 4 April 2008.

                      Chicom WF-170 Tomahawk-like cruise missile. Air- and ground-launchable.
                      Last edited by Don Chan; 1st April 2009, 09:54.
                      Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                      http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                      Comment

                      • Don Chan
                        Rank V Registered User

                        http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/090402/4/bhj8.html
                        http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/090402/3/bhiq.html
                        http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url.../17/1h5kf.html

                        2 April 2009:
                        First batch of 16 PLAAF fighter female pilots graduated as First Lieutenants at 3rd Flight Academy, after 44 months of training. Ages 21-24.
                        Next task: fly at the National Day parade. More details in the articles.

                        http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url.../17/1h59o.html

                        2 April 2009:

                        "Black Bat [Squadron] Air Force martyrs' heroic deeds
                        Arouse the people's patriotic sense"

                        Construction of ROCAF Black Bat Squadron history exhibition hall begins in Hsin Chu (Xin Zhu) City, Taiwan.
                        Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                        http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                        Comment

                        • Showtime 100
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          Originally posted by Don Chan View Post
                          http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/090402/4/bhj8.html
                          http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/090402/3/bhiq.html
                          http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url.../17/1h5kf.html

                          2 April 2009:
                          First batch of 16 PLAAF fighter female pilots graduated as First Lieutenants at 3rd Flight Academy, after 44 months of training. Ages 21-24.
                          Next task: fly at the National Day parade. More details in the articles.

                          http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url.../17/1h59o.html

                          2 April 2009:




                          Take control of yrself and u will control the world!

                          Comment

                          • PLA-MKII
                            Senior Member

                            I don't think its over-analysis to consider the cant to be an AESA radar. Logically, it can be either an AESA or a PESA but cannot be a slotted array unless they did this just to "fool" a bunch of "internet fanboys".

                            The Japanese developed their AESA a very long time ago and were the pioneers. The Chinese have contemporary AESA radars to work from. This does not of course mean that there won't be debugging needed for a new system. But it should be not too far from the AESAs developed by countries like Israel and Italy.

                            Or maybe I'm just a fanboy

                            Comment

                            • Tigershark
                              Senior Member

                              Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
                              I don't think its over-analysis to consider the cant to be an AESA radar. Logically, it can be either an AESA or a PESA but cannot be a slotted array unless they did this just to "fool" a bunch of "internet fanboys".

                              The Japanese developed their AESA a very long time ago and were the pioneers. The Chinese have contemporary AESA radars to work from. This does not of course mean that there won't be debugging needed for a new system. But it should be not too far from the AESAs developed by countries like Israel and Italy.

                              Or maybe I'm just a fanboy
                              like most thing coming out of that island, their aesa sucked. Thats why China took its time developing AESA. China is not in a race. China just wants to take its time to build things properly. Thats why the WS-10 development is taking a while but the engine is already superior to what it will replace. the AESA radar when it is done, will likely be very remarkable.

                              Comment

                              • Inst
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                Actually, I think given the conditions of the Japanese aerospace industry their failure with AESA radar is unremarkable.

                                According to some documentation, Chinese production of some AESA parts is 25 times more expensive than its Western counterparts. Whoops.

                                Comment

                                • tphuang
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  Originally posted by Inst View Post
                                  Actually, I think given the conditions of the Japanese aerospace industry their failure with AESA radar is unremarkable.

                                  According to some documentation, Chinese production of some AESA parts is 25 times more expensive than its Western counterparts. Whoops.
                                  that's in the past, knowing how frugal PLAAF is, they would not equip any fighter jets with AESA until they get the cost down. And the issue with Japanese was that they just had not much experience with fighter jet radars. Going from nothing to AESA radar on your first try is a very big jump. It makes sense that they had some struggles.
                                  Visit my Chinese military blog at http://china-pla.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment

                                  • PLA-MKII
                                    Senior Member

                                    the manufacturing technologies for AESA radars are such that there are gargantuan economies of scale. Thus, when China experiments with a few dozen radars, each different from the other, the costs are obviously going to be massive as opposed to having one radar and making 500 units of it.

                                    Comment

                                    • Don Chan
                                      Rank V Registered User

                                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...t_11111529.htm
                                      to
                                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...11111529_2.htm

                                      LI Feng, the PLAAF pilot who recently emergency-landed a J-10 after it flamed out, talks about his previous accidents.

                                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...t_11121109.htm
                                      to
                                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2009-0...11121109_8.htm

                                      PLAAF. Babewatch.

                                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/forum/2009...t_10977703.htm
                                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/forum/2009...t_10976352.htm
                                      http://news.xinhuanet.com/forum/2009...t_10976060.htm

                                      More international babewatch.
                                      Republic of Korea Air Force KF-16 missing photographs

                                      http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-databas...irforce/ROKAF/

                                      Comment

                                      • RSM55
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        Look like the rumours about the Russians getting angry and not supplying spares anymore have some ground (esp. regarding the fact that the PLAAF Mig-21 and even -15 are not being retired from service):

                                        Sunday, April 05, 2009
                                        Decommission of PLAAF’s Su-27 has started.


                                        First contract for a batch of 24 Su-27 was signed on June 14, 1990 and after 19 years of service; it is not surprising to note that first batch has already reached its end-of-service-life. The original SU-27 airframe only has a stated service life of 5000 hours.
                                        (that's pure BS, the original SLF of PLAAF Sukhois is 10 thousand hrs min. - my note).

                                        I can see this being part of an argument for a stronger domestic aviation industry; you don’t have to worry about the reliability of your foreign supplier 20 years down the road. At the same time, given the poor state of the Chinese Military-industrial complex in the late 1980s, buying the inexpensive Su-27 was not a difficult discussion to make (50 to 65 percentage of the deal was done in barter currency in form of export credits)

                                        If we use the rumor of a two pilots per bird ratio, that is close to other estimate 125 annual hours available to PLAAF's SU-27 drivers.

                                        5000 / 20 / 2 = 125 hours per year (hours / years in service / number of pilots) = hours per year.

                                        Photos of a dismembered Su-27 (first batch, service number 08, serial number 30008) in Xian.

                                        http://china-defense.blogspot.com/20...su-27-has.html

                                        The "dismemberment" pictures confirm that the platform was in quite a good shape (no idea about the engines), notice esp. riveting, hardpoint wedge ends, structure stress lines alignement, internal mobile parts build-in surfaces).
                                        Last edited by RSM55; 6th April 2009, 14:23.

                                        Comment

                                        • swerve
                                          Rank 5 Registered User

                                          Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
                                          the manufacturing technologies for AESA radars are such that there are gargantuan economies of scale. Thus, when China experiments with a few dozen radars, each different from the other, the costs are obviously going to be massive as opposed to having one radar and making 500 units of it.
                                          The economies of scale are gargantuan for the transmit/receive modules. You can use the same TRMs in many different radars. For example Selex ues the same TRMs in the Vixen E, the PicoSAR, & at least 3 different models of Seaspray.
                                          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                                          Justinian

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