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  • GarryB
    Rank 5 Registered User

    #21
    I tend to agree with Pit. If you want the ability to scan for and see targets below and behind the aircraft it is just as easy to fit a SAPSAN like pod facing backwards than to build an optical port there.
    So near the undercarriage, there must be a very good reason to fit it there, and I am guessing it is to prevent attack by IR and optically guided anti aircraft missiles.

    Comment

    • bustermorley
      Member

      #22
      The MIG35 is a damn site prettier then the f-35.

      I guess stealth ain't pretty.

      Comment

      • abrahavt
        Rank 5 Registered User

        #23
        Some hard data as per Russians at Aero India

        - crew - 1 or 2
        - take off wt 17500 kg normal
        -maximum-23500kgs
        -max landing wt - 16800 kgs
        -max combat load 6500 kgs
        -max speed at sea level-1400km/hr
        -at high altitude- 2100km/hr
        -max altitude- 17500 mtr
        -max g load - 9.0
        max range 2000 km
        with 3 drop tanks-3000km
        with 3 drop tanks +one mid air refueling - 6000 kms

        Engine RD 33 MK or thrust vectoring RD 33 MKV WITH 9000Kgf
        life engine - 4000 hrs
        1st overhaul-1000 hrs

        quadrapole redundant three axis digital fly by wire control
        Zhuk AE muli mode active phased array radar detection range more than 140 km ( 250 km??) with upto 30+targets on track while scan mode operation

        integrated in flight refueling system

        OLS UEM forward looking optronic search and track system with IR TV Laser range finder cum target illumination channel

        cockpit information management system

        upper air intake eliminated

        fuel capacity 1.5 times compared to mig 29

        10 weapon hard points and may come with Kh 31 anti ship missile,RVV AE,Integrated Gsh 301 with ammo 150 rounds,KAB 500TV guided bombs,KH 35 anti ship missile,Kh 31P anti radiation missile,

        three multifunctional colour LCDs and wide angle HUD,four MFDS in second cockpit if incorporated.

        VK 100 turbine starter


        MIL STD 1553 B compliant multiple data bus

        Full HOTAS capability

        OLS UEM forward looking IRST SYSTEM

        OLS K 360 degree look down IRST

        thrust vectoring plus/minus 20 degree all aspect (more than su-30 mki)

        Comment

        • franc
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #24
          Who know the specification of Phazotron FGA01-01 Zhuk-MAE?
          Je pense, donc je suis.

          Comment

          • Stealth Spy
            Rank 6 Registered User

            #25
            Originally posted by franc View Post
            Who know the specification of Phazotron FGA01-01 Zhuk-MAE?
            I have obtained a 40 page Phazothron information & analytical journal on that very radar. I'll post a scan shortly.


            For now, i only have a terribly taken pic of an infoboard of the radar :

            Last edited by Stealth Spy; 12th February 2007, 05:50.

            Comment

            • franc
              Rank 5 Registered User

              #26
              What's this red circled?
              Last edited by franc; 12th February 2007, 12:23.
              Je pense, donc je suis.

              Comment

              • fightingirish
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #27
                As I posted before (can't find now ), it seems to be a pod for navigation, detection, sighting and reconnaissance.

                The following part of a press report from Mig was posted by someone before, either in the Aero India 2007 thread or in Mig-29KUB, Mig-35... threads

                (...)A revolutionary feature of the MiG-35 is the integration of the most advanced optic-electronic sighting and targeting systems. The developers utilized unique technologies from the Russian space program when creating these systems. The MiG-35 is equipped with in-built multi-channel surveying-and-sighting optic-electronic system which has an extended range. The multi-channel optic-electronic station to be fitted to the aircraft in a pod allows for round-the-clock navigation, detection, sighting and reconnaissance.(...)
                Source: RAC "MiG" presents its latest MiG-35 fighter at AERO INDIA 2007
                Sln, fightingirish
                Avatar: Ho-Yeol Ryu, Flughafen (Airport), Hannover [HAJ / EDDV] 2005

                Comment

                • sealordlawrence
                  Senior Member

                  #28
                  Originally posted by fightingirish View Post
                  As I posted before (can't find now ), it seems to be a pod for navigation, detection, sighting and reconnaissance.

                  The following part of a press report from Mig was posted by someone before, either in the Aero India 2007 thread or in Mig-29KUB, Mig-35... threads



                  Source: RAC "MiG" presents its latest MiG-35 fighter at AERO INDIA 2007
                  Sounds kind of like the EOTS system on the F-35?

                  I would be interested to know what if any efforts have been made to reduce the aircrafts RCS?

                  Comment

                  • Trident
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #29
                    Originally posted by sealordlawrence View Post
                    Sounds kind of like the EOTS system on the F-35?
                    A bit, yes. It doesn't quite have the same spherical coverage though and is probably draggier (there are appertures, but they aren't distributed). The closest Western equivalent is definitely the F-16E/F. This podded thing sound like it might be detachable, certainly a good idea on pure fighter missions.

                    Originally posted by sealordlawrence View Post
                    I would be interested to know what if any efforts have been made to reduce the aircrafts RCS?
                    Apparently there have been efforts, but I'd say their extent is pretty modest. A better surface finish, some RAM here and there, a treated canopy and perhaps even a frequency selective radome. IMHO that would be about it, though.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • star49
                      Senior Member

                      #30
                      It is the 680 module version currently installed. still less than a $1m
                      Russian fighter with active phased array radar first shown to public at Indian exhibition

                      BANGALORE, India. Feb 9 (Interfax-AVN) - The MiG-35 fighter jet, featuring an active phased array radar, made its first foreign public appearance at the Aero India 2007 aerospace show in Bangalore.

                      "The radar added new combat characteristics to the fighter, and enhanced its effectiveness dramatically," Yury Guskov, the First Deputy Designer General and the Chief Designer of the Fazotron-NIIR Corporation, told Interfax-AVN on Friday.

                      The active phased array radar has the effective range increased twice. Digital scanning allows it to simultaneously operate in air-to-air and air-to-surface modes, track group and single targets, identifying their type and class. For instance, such radar can easily distinguish between the F-16 and MiG-21, MiG-29 or other fighters.

                      According to Guskov, there are two such radars now, based on monolith integral circuits. "The main advantage of such radars is that they have transmitters built in every emitting element, while the passive phased array that also features a capability to digitally control the beam has only one transmitter, which affects its reliability significantly. Its guaranteed service life varies from 60-120 hours, while active phased arrays with 680 transmitters remain fully operational even when 10% of them are out of order," he said.

                      He added that this raised the guaranteed service life of an active phased array radar to 10,000 hours. "We officially guarantee only 600-900 hours now, because the technology still needs to be proven in operation," he said.

                      He added that the active phased array radar employs a high-speed computer, capable of 50 billion simple operations, which ensures radar signal processing with high resolution, so that targets become visible even if they are located 35-50 meters one from another.

                      Guskov also said that the radar installed in the MiG-35 also has 680 emitting elements. Later on the number may be increased to 1,064, while the radars of Su-30 will have more than 2,000 of them. "As of now the price of one emitting assembly is $400. When we start mass-production, it will cost far less," he said.

                      He noted that the active phased array radar of the MiG-35 is based fully and entirely on Russian microelectronics. "Our radar is not inferior to any foreign analogies, but costs less. As a matter of fact, only France and the U.S. could afford having active phased arrays on their planes. Now Russia joined the club," he said and added that the array is designed so as to be easily assembled and disassembled in the manner of the Lego play sets.

                      According to him, the array is fully integral with the power supply system and the cooling system of the fighter. "This is of paramount importance, because active phased arrays may be incapacitated quite simply. If no cooling is provided, the element's temperature will immediately rise to 300, 400, 500 degrees Centigrade and it will simply burn. An active phased array radar at a price of several million dollars can burn in mere seconds," he said.

                      He added that the production version of the active phased array radar to be installed into the MiG-35 fighter will be ready next year.

                      Comment

                      • star49
                        Senior Member

                        #31
                        Originally posted by Trident View Post
                        Apparently there have been efforts, but I'd say their extent is pretty modest. A better surface finish, some RAM here and there, a treated canopy and perhaps even a frequency selective radome. IMHO that would be about it, though.
                        MIG-35 has one advantage over F-18E/Rafale/EF that it is not using extensive composite materials and advance manufacturing techniques. so ther is alot of potential for improvement in structure.

                        Comment

                        • Levsha
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #32
                          Originally posted by star49
                          MIG-35 has one advantage over F-18E/Rafale/EF that it is not using extensive composite materials and advance manufacturing techniques. so ther is alot of potential for improvement in structure.
                          Such nonsense...

                          I haven't got information about the actual MiG-35, but according to This month's edition of "Vzlyot" magazine (www.take-off.ru) the MiG-29KUB has a substantial amount of its airframe made from composites "all that is not the colour yellow" according to a project chief.

                          I'm not sure, but I don't see why the MiG-35 would be any different.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by Levsha; 13th February 2007, 11:46.

                          Comment

                          • djcross
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            #33
                            Originally posted by star49 View Post
                            MIG-35 has one advantage over F-18E/Rafale/EF that it is not using extensive composite materials and advance manufacturing techniques. so ther is alot of potential for improvement in structure.
                            Composites are not something that can be added after the fact, like a chunk of "black aluminum". Composite use has to be planned in the structural design from the very beginning. This is because the structural and aeroelastic properties such as stiffness, moment of inertia and inability carry point loads are very, very different between metallic and composite structures.

                            Comment

                            • star49
                              Senior Member

                              #34
                              Originally posted by Levsha View Post
                              Such nonsense...

                              I haven't got information about the actual MiG-35, but according to This month's edition of "Vzlyot" magazine (www.take-off.ru) the MiG-29KUB has a substantial amount of its airframe made from composites "all that is not the colour yellow" according to a project chief.

                              I'm not sure, but I don't see why the MiG-35 would be any different.
                              It is still only 15%.

                              Comment

                              • star49
                                Senior Member

                                #35
                                Originally posted by djcross View Post
                                Composites are not something that can be added after the fact, like a chunk of "black aluminum". Composite use has to be planned in the structural design from the very beginning. This is because the structural and aeroelastic properties such as stiffness, moment of inertia and inability carry point loads are very, very different between metallic and composite structures.
                                IAF is not going to induct all 126 airplanes in one day. it is long process so all composite aircraft can be developed for later batches.

                                Comment

                                • djcross
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by star49 View Post
                                  IAF is not going to induct all 126 airplanes in one day. it is long process so all composite aircraft can be developed for later batches.
                                  Let me put it more bluntly. MiG-35 will NEVER be an "all composite" aircraft. 15% is about as far as you can go without major design changes that cause a cascade of other changes.

                                  Composites are not one-for-one substitutes for metallics. An "all composite" aircraft would require different frame and keel spacing, different spar and stringer depth and number, different skins and completely different equipment attachments to allieviate point loads.

                                  This will cause internal equipment relocation (actuators, valves, engine mounts, landing gear attachments, avionics, wire harnesses, hydraulic and fuel plumbing, Etc.) Fuel volumes will change as will flight control actuator requirements as control surface inertias increase.

                                  This cascades to changes in electric and hydraulic power demand, which drives cooling changes.

                                  In the end, you might keep the engine, landing gear, avionics and ejection seat, but will throw everything else away because it is no longer a balanced design for the "all composite" aircraft. The bottom line is an "all composite" MiG-35 will likely not look anything like the MiG-35 you expect.

                                  And we didn't touch on damage tolerance, inspectability and repairability of composites.

                                  Comment

                                  • Austin
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    #37
                                    Yep djcross is cent percent right , beyond a certain threshold you cant replace the metallic structure with composites , it would be nothing short ,than going back to the drawing board and designing a new aircraft.

                                    If they managed it to reach any where to 15 % then its pretty good
                                    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                    Comment

                                    • star49
                                      Senior Member

                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by djcross View Post
                                      Let me put it more bluntly. MiG-35 will NEVER be an "all composite" aircraft. 15% is about as far as you can go without major design changes that cause a cascade of other changes.

                                      Composites are not one-for-one substitutes for metallics. An "all composite" aircraft would require different frame and keel spacing, different spar and stringer depth and number, different skins and completely different equipment attachments to allieviate point loads.

                                      This will cause internal equipment relocation (actuators, valves, engine mounts, landing gear attachments, avionics, wire harnesses, hydraulic and fuel plumbing, Etc.) Fuel volumes will change as will flight control actuator requirements as control surface inertias increase.

                                      This cascades to changes in electric and hydraulic power demand, which drives cooling changes.

                                      In the end, you might keep the engine, landing gear, avionics and ejection seat, but will throw everything else away because it is no longer a balanced design for the "all composite" aircraft. The bottom line is an "all composite" MiG-35 will likely not look anything like the MiG-35 you expect.

                                      And we didn't touch on damage tolerance, inspectability and repairability of composites.
                                      so how Sukhoi is developing Su-35 from Su-27 with major weight reduction. u have to look at value of the deal and time line. development costs in Russia are very cheap. few prototypes will make it into it. they upgraded engine for small order of MIG-29K. now multiply that by factor of 10. In 8 years alot of things can change and Russia OAK program for advance manufacturing for all factories by 2015.
                                      http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...d-western.html
                                      Indian defence minister A K Antony said last week at Aero India in Bangalore that a decision in the much-delayed competition would be "taken very quickly". If a request for proposals (RFP) is issued in mid-2007, the first MRCA could arrive no earlier than 2014 given the time it would take to complete the evaluation and sign a contract.

                                      Comment

                                      • Jackonicko
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        #39
                                        While it's hard to see major parts of the core structure being replaced by composites, the MiG-29K and -35 still seem to have metal tailplanes, ailerons, flaps and wing leading edges, undercarriage doors, canopy frame and small items like aileron actuator fairings. All of these could be substituted, fairly simply, and with major weight savings.

                                        The real obstacle to incorporating more composites is the cost of tooling, and the impact it would have on MiG's current production methods, which may be archaic, but which allow small scale batch construction in less than optimised facilities.

                                        Comment

                                        • soyuz1917
                                          Rank 5 Registered User

                                          #40
                                          if Im not mistaken the F-22 is only 24% composites by weight and the F-18 is 19% composites by weight. If the MiG is 15% I call that rather impressive for a Russian design and a good sign for any future 5th gen design.

                                          engineers.ihs.com/NR/rdonlyres/AEF9A38E-56C3-4264-980C-D8D6980A4C84/0/444.pdf

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