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By: - 30th November 2006 at 18:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I cant realy help with your question But I know that there are some pretty impressive upgraded examples out there, South Africas Cheetah C's, Ecuadors birds, and some of the Pakistani variants in paticular.
I have high hopes for this thread and am especially hoping for some good pics.
By: - 30th November 2006 at 20:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Argentina still has Mirage III's and Neshers and at least the Neshers have been upgraded and are now called Finger.
Really ?? I didn't know that ? And what is exactly the upgrade that justifies a new denomination ? Genuine question...
And, excuse me but, I think that "Finger" is barely an appropriate name for a combat aircraft, just my opinion...
________
FORD VEGA HISTORY
By: - 30th November 2006 at 23:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would agree with Finger being a stupid name....perhaps it means something in a language other than English?
The Nesher is just a Mirage III or 5 (not sure which) built by the Isrealis, and it was exported to Argentina as the Dagger actually. The Kfir, by contrast, is based on the Mirage 5 airframe, but has the J-79 engine fitted in place of the Atar on the Mirage. I don't know if the Nesher/Dagger has the Atar 09C or 09K.
I believe the Daggers were then upgraded and are now called Fingers.
As far as how many III's the Argentine's have left I'm not sure, but I believe they are designated Mirage IIIEA. Not sure what if any upgrades they have had.
I found a video clip that's pretty cool showing Argentine Mirages & Daggers (Fingers) flying around, and in a few scenes you see them fitted with what seems to be the R.550 Magic missile. This alone didn't cause me any alarm, but in a few pictures and scenes you can tell the missile is mounted at a rather odd angle......
Are these just the way the launch rails for the Magic are on the MIII/5 series or is this some type of dual-rail launcher ala what is fitted to the Sea Harrier FRS.51's of the Indian Navy (and originally the FRS.1's and the Royal Navy after the Falklands War)...where both missiles are canted somewhat downwards and not straight out.
Anyone know?
Lots of questions, but just wanting to learn....
By: - 1st December 2006 at 10:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Also..if anyone has any pictures of the R-Darter on a Cheetah C, it would be appreciated. I hear the Cheetah is to remain in service untill 2011 or 2012.
By: - 1st December 2006 at 12:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The caption says this is an R-Darter being fired from an upgraded F-5EM.
If so it looks an awful lot like the Derby in my opinion......
By: - 1st December 2006 at 13:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Really ?? I didn't know that ? And what is exactly the upgrade that justifies a new denomination ? Genuine question...
And, excuse me but, I think that "Finger" is barely an appropriate name for a combat aircraft, just my opinion...
Its a catchy sounding name (for the phonetics) in non-english language, but doesn´t really mean anything. And with such an aircraft you can give your opponnent the "finger", right? :D
On a serious note, the "Finger" conversion program was already concieved in 1980/81, as soon as the ex-IDF Neshers were operating with the FAA, but only materialized in 1984/85 timeframe (post-Falklands/Malvinas war).
The Neshers/Daggers (as already explained, IAI exported the Neshers as Daggers, with only minro changes to the original specs), were upgraded i batches, and there are at least four diffrent variants which can be listed:
Finger IIA
Finger IIB
Finger III
Finger IV
which differ on nav/com equipment and radar. A second upgrade program (AFAIK) standardized all remaining aircraft as Finger III, with Marconi nav suit, ELTA 2012 (??) radar, new radios, and some minor improvements in self-defence equipment.
The engines are still the ATAR 9C, for all argie Mirage/Fingers.
There are some 35-40 aircraft of all types (Mirage IIIEA, Finger, Mirage 5P) in service with the FAA.
The Mirage IIIEA fleet was also standardized to carry Magics (originally the aircraft was delivered in two batches, the first batch unable to carry Magics), and it is said that the rails and software was upgraded to carry Sidewinders, but I´m not sure about that.
The few remaining Mirage 5P were upgraded with RWR, nav/com and some other electronics and renamed Mara. As of today, the Mara´s are assigned to the Mirage OCU unit, and not used in combat duties any longer. They are also used as testbed for a locally developped chaff/flare dispenser, which should be installed in the entire fleet (that is if the budget gets assigned before its to late and the Mirage fleet is definitively grounded).
To add some chips to the list originally posted by Phantom:
Argentina: already explained above
Chile: Mirage 50 CN alias Pantera, and Mirage 5B (ex-FA Belgium) alias Elkan
Colombia : Kfir, but also Mirage 5COA
Perú: Mirage 5P
Venezuela : Mirage 5V and Mirage 50, all upgraded to a standard similar to the Mirage III NG
Brasil: just very recently (2006 IRCC) retired the Mirage IIIBR´s, and has gotten surpluss M-2000C´s
At least in SA I can´t think of any other user.
King Jester
By: - 1st December 2006 at 13:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Following is a link to PAF mirages...all sorts of details.
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/airforce/index.html
PAF has been upgrading its mirage fleet since mid-late 90s under the designation 'ROSE' (Retrofit Of Strike Element). As of 2004, 14 Mirage 5EF were to receive ROSE III upgrade, and apparently more mirages are bieng planned to put through such upgrades.
By: - 1st December 2006 at 15:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pakistanis use(d) almost endless list of various Mirage III versions:
The first batch delivered to Pakistan in 1967 contained three versions - 18x single-seat fighter Mirage IIIEP, 3x double-seat trainer Mirage IIIDP and 3x single-seat recce Mirage IIIRP. (PAF total 24 units)
Second batch from 1970 contained another two Mirage IIIDPs and twenty-eight Mirage 5PA single-seat attackers. In 1975 additional ten Mirage IIIRP aircraft were purchased. (PAF total 64 units)
The last new aircraft were acquired in 1979, two twinseaters designated as Mirage 5DPA2, 18x attackers Mirage-5PA2 and 12x Exocet-capable Mirage-5PA3. (PAF total 96 units)
And now comes the mess.. In 1990 Pakistanis purchased ex Australian birds, 32x single-seat fighter Mirage IIIO and 7x double-seat trainer Mirage IIIDO. Another 10x Mirage IIIO and one Mirage IIIDO airframes were bought as scrap for spares. (PAF total 146 units)
In 1996 Frenchies supplied 33 used Mirage 5F attackers plus 6 double-seat trainers designated as Mirage IIIDF. (PAF total 185 units)
In 2000, all Lebanese aircraft were bought, that counts 9x Mirage IIIEL plus one Mirage IIIDL. (PAF total 195 units)
In 2002, 12 ex-Spanish Mirage IIIEEs and one Mirage IIIDE airframes were bought for spares (all not flyworthy) (PAF total 208 units)
In 2004, all Lybian Mirage 5D/5ED/5DD were purchased. The estimated number is between 45-50 including some 5DD twinseaters, 5ED interceptors and a recce version. All others should be 5D attackers. (PAF total 258 units)
Upgrades:
ROSE-1 - All five Mirage IIIDPs, plus all 32 Australian singleseaters Mirage IIIO
ROSE-2 - 19 French ex-Mirage 5EFs
ROSE-3 - Remaining 14 ex-French Mirage 5EFs
By: - 1st December 2006 at 16:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The caption says this is an R-Darter being fired from an upgraded F-5EM.
If so it looks an awful lot like the Derby in my opinion......
It looks like ps to me...
By: - 1st December 2006 at 16:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It looks like ps to me...
Same sentiment.. The missiles and aircraft looks badly aline plus the color contrast of ammunition and the fighter... The smoke looks damm FAKE!!!
By: - 1st December 2006 at 16:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The caption says this is an R-Darter being fired from an upgraded F-5EM.
If so it looks an awful lot like the Derby in my opinion......
No F-5EM sports this camouflage..
By: - 1st December 2006 at 23:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey don't shoot the messenger......I Just saw the photo and without really looking at it I've posted it.
The camouflage issue didn't hit me at the time, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense.
I looked on Denel's website and could only find info about the A-Darter (which looks like the AIM-132 ASRAAM if you ask me), but no mention of the older U-Darter or the R-Darter BVR weapon.
Strange.....
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 03:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I have high hopes for this thread and am especially hoping for some good pics.
I did too.....looks like those hopes are misplaces though....
Must be that whole "it's not Chinese or Russian" thing again......;)
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 18:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not quite.. The real problem is that some of the most dedicated pic posters (like me) were suddenly given some kind of limitation which pretty much prevents them from posting pictures. Any idea how could I overcome the problem?
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 19:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Kfir operator? U. - S. - A. !!!
Among the current operators of the Kfir, the first to mention is maybe the USA.
Of course it is not directly operated by the govt anymore, those capitalists will subcontract anything they can, even their mom and little sister :p
Here a kfir operated by ATAC in the dissimilar aggressor role at NAS Oceana.
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 19:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The rose of the Punjab...
A Pakistani ROSE-upgraded Mirage III, Ex-Oztralian I believe.
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 19:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Flex:
Not quite.. The real problem is that some of the most dedicated pic posters (like me) were suddenly given some kind of limitation which pretty much prevents them from posting pictures. Any idea how could I overcome the problem?
Try using imageshack.
wilhelm:
Also..if anyone has any pictures of the R-Darter on a Cheetah C, it would be appreciated
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 20:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Algunos de Ecuador
A few Kfirs from Ecuador
First the local glory, the Kfir C-2 with a kill mark (Ok it's a peruano T-37 tweet :o , but hey, a kill is a kill)
Then a kfir coming home and showinghis underwear
Kfir C-7 with (inert) Python III
A nice underside, this October in Quito (kudos to the photographer on this one!)
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 20:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Colombia
Two from Colombia
By: - 3rd December 2006 at 20:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Shri Lanka
the armed forces of Sri lanka (Ceylon) are another prominent operator, facing a horrible terrorist insurgency for years
Kfir C-7 CF-725 of 10th sqn.
Posts: 7,989
By: PhantomII - 30th November 2006 at 18:44
Just wondering what the current status is of the world's Mirage III/5/50 fleets (including the Cheetah, Kfir, & Nesher).
As of December 2006.....who still operates them and what variants?
Here's all I know so please fill in the huge gaps.
Argentina still has Mirage III's and Neshers and at least the Neshers have been upgraded and are now called Finger.
Chile operates the Mirage 50C Pantera.
Ecuador - Kfir (not sure what variants.....CE or C.10 maybe? or are the CE & C.10 one and the same?)
Colombia - Kfir? CE or C.7 or C.10?
Pakistan - numerous Mirage III & 5 variants.....not sure which models specifically
Libya - Mirage 5 variants?
Egypt - Mirage 5 variants?
Sri Lanka - Kfir C.7 & TC.2
South Africa - Cheetah C/D