By: Usman
- 9th May 2008 at 09:04Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On the 8th May Pakistan Air Force conducted the second test launch of Raad cruise missile from a Mirage-IIIEA. Video of this test launch can be seen here: http://www.pakdef.info/multimedia/index.html
By: Kaduna2003
- 9th May 2008 at 20:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On the 8th May Pakistan Air Force conducted the second test launch of Raad cruise missile from a Mirage-IIIEA. Video of this test launch can be seen here: http://www.pakdef.info/multimedia/index.html
By: CAT1
- 17th May 2008 at 11:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great news ............ Alan Warnes was in Pakistan in April and got some great access. He is currently writing a 200 page book on the PAF concentrating on the last 10 years - out in Dec........Can't wait!!!:D
By: Buddha
- 17th May 2008 at 13:47Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great news ............ Alan Warnes was in Pakistan in April and got some great access. He is currently writing a 200 page book on the PAF concentrating on the last 10 years - out in Dec........Can't wait!!!:D
Will this included any new information on PAF shoot downs of Russian / Afghanistan helicopters during the 1979 - 1989 period??
By: soundbarrier
- 3rd June 2008 at 13:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great news ............ Alan Warnes was in Pakistan in April and got some great access. He is currently writing a 200 page book on the PAF concentrating on the last 10 years - out in Dec........Can't wait!!!:D
I can wait. His writing is o.k. but his pictures are crap.... :D
New
Posts: 73
By: Adil
- 16th September 2008 at 23:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The venerable Mirage III still seems to be going strong with the PAF. These recent pictures and viedo suggest an in flight refuelling probe has been added along with a modern cockpit layout, possibly as part of the ROSE III retro-fit.
The video shows the new defence minister visiting a PAF facility and includes some cockpit layout shots of the mirage and exterior shots of the JF-17.
The PAF has selected 3-4 Il-78 Midas tankers for refuelling duties, the first of which should be with the PAF in a couple of months time. However, this still leaves a secondary requirment for refuelling the F-16, which I'm guessing will be privided by surplus ex-USAF KC-135 tankers? The KC-10 would have been a more suitable choice with extra pods on the wngs, as that would have allowed refuelling of mixed JF-17 and F16 formations from a single platform
More news of future acquisitions of the PAF were elluded to by the recent interview of the ACM by AFM last month. These include the Erieye, KJ-200 and FC20 (J10 in PAF service). It sure will be really interesting to see how the Chinese systems intergrate with the western origin platforms such as the Erieyes, and vice versa with the F16s and the KJ-200. It will also be interesting to see how the FC20 differs from its Chinese J10 counterpart. The PAF have been quite experienced, with some success, in intergrating western technology in Chinese origing aircraft in the past, so shoud be quite interesting.
By: SOC
- 17th September 2008 at 05:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The PAF has selected 3-4 Il-78 Midas tankers for refuelling duties, the first of which should be with the PAF in a couple of months time. However, this still leaves a secondary requirment for refuelling the F-16, which I'm guessing will be privided by surplus ex-USAF KC-135 tankers? The KC-10 would have been a more suitable choice with extra pods on the wngs, as that would have allowed refuelling of mixed JF-17 and F16 formations from a single platform
There is an Israeli drop tank that features a probe enabling F-16s to use the hose-and-drogue refueling method. Maybe that's an option, and then you can rely solely on the MIDAS tankers. KC-10s? Not a chance, they're overused in the USAF as it is. KC-135s? Equally unlikely if you ask me. You don't want an E model that'll last for about five minutes, and the R models are being used and abused! Plus, with the state of the tanker program for the USAF, they may not want to be parting with any air refueling assets anytime soon anyway :rolleyes:
Perhaps the best choice would've been an Airbus or Boeing tanker design, complete with both boom and wingtip drogue pods? More expensive, not available quite as quickly, but it'd have worked, in theory, with the whole fleet. The only question is whether Pakistan needs two different tankers due to potentially different probes and drogue interfaces on the Western and Eastern fighters and A/R aircraft.
New
Posts: 73
By: Adil
- 17th September 2008 at 15:03Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There is an Israeli drop tank that features a probe enabling F-16s to use the hose-and-drogue refueling method. Maybe that's an option, and then you can rely solely on the MIDAS tankers. KC-10s? Not a chance, they're overused in the USAF as it is. KC-135s? Equally unlikely if you ask me. You don't want an E model that'll last for about five minutes, and the R models are being used and abused! Plus, with the state of the tanker program for the USAF, they may not want to be parting with any air refueling assets anytime soon anyway :rolleyes:
Perhaps the best choice would've been an Airbus or Boeing tanker design, complete with both boom and wingtip drogue pods? More expensive, not available quite as quickly, but it'd have worked, in theory, with the whole fleet. The only question is whether Pakistan needs two different tankers due to potentially different probes and drogue interfaces on the Western and Eastern fighters and A/R aircraft.
I think the Islraeli's don't use the probe equipped tanks that often, I'm geussing it probably has quite an impact in terms of weight and aerodynamics on the aircraft.
The PAF will definately need 2 different tankers, particularly if they want to refuel the F16s, the rest of the fleet will have probe refuelling. While at Farborough this year I had a chat with a sales rep from EADS at their stand, they were showing their latest A330 based tanker. While chatting with him about the US tanker competition debacle, I asked him about the PAF. Apparantley the PAF are in talks with EADS over converting some ex-PIA A310s into dual boom/probe tankers, although when or if this ever comes to light is anyones guess.
By: Kaduna2003
- 17th September 2008 at 18:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The venerable Mirage III still seems to be going strong with the PAF. These recent pictures and viedo suggest an in flight refuelling probe has been added along with a modern cockpit layout, possibly as part of the ROSE III retro-fit.
The video shows the new defence minister visiting a PAF facility and includes some cockpit layout shots of the mirage and exterior shots of the JF-17.
Thats a lovely pic and makes for an excellent precision strike platform!!
Do you have any details on what the ROSE-III upgrade consists of? I had heard a rumour that it included the ability to fire MICA. Is that true?
New
Posts: 73
By: Adil
- 17th September 2008 at 20:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thats a lovely pic and makes for an excellent precision strike platform!!
Do you have any details on what the ROSE-III upgrade consists of? I had heard a rumour that it included the ability to fire MICA. Is that true?
I don't know the exact details, but it does involve a FIAR Grifo bvr radar, multifunction displays, mission computers, FLIR in the nose section, Atlis II targetting pod and other enhancements, as I say, I dont know the exact details, so not sure if they can use the MICA.
By: vikasrehman
- 17th September 2008 at 20:54Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't know the exact details, but it does involve a FIAR Grifo bvr radar, multifunction displays, mission computers, FLIR in the nose section, Atlis II targetting pod and other enhancements, as I say, I dont know the exact details, so not sure if they can use the MICA.
Adil, if i remeber correctly ROSE III was an extension of ROSE II adding FLIR to Sagem MAESTRO Nav/Attack system and I dont think it involves a radar upgared. After ROSE III came ROSE IV, and though im not aware of it current status I think it should have finsihed by now or quite close to it. I might be wrong but addition of IFR probe might be part of ROSE V.
New
Posts: 73
By: Adil
- 17th September 2008 at 21:00Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Adil, if i remeber correctly ROSE III was an extension of ROSE II adding FLIR to Sagem MAESTRO Nav/Attack system and I dont think it involves a radar upgared. After ROSE III came ROSE IV, and though im not aware of it current status I think it should have finsihed by now or quite close to it. I might be wrong but addition of IFR probe might be part of ROSE V.
Yes, I think you are right, perhaps I didn't make it clear, I was referring to the complete upgrade from Rose I, which included the Grifo M radar, if I remember correctly
By: Deino
- 7th March 2009 at 22:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I just did not want to add any further JF-17/FC-1 related questions or remarks to the Tejas topic, therefore I “moved” this to the PAF-tread, but this post I found interesting:
As someone here brought up the JF-17, I thought I'd post some surprises here. This is just for info, don't construe this as flame bait.
1: Weapon testing and integration has finished(rather sometime ago as the land acquired for the purpose was returned to the respective provincial govt).Everything from active BVR missiles to ALCMS are now certified on the plane.
2: No 26 sqn has ditched it's Fantans and has fully transitioned to the Thunder( so much for PAF's commitment huh), with change from tactical strike to general multirole duties.
For official confirmation, wait for the formal induction in a few weeks time.
Even if I have my doubts about that huge progress I surely will wait a few weeks !
Anyway what makes me wonder is the fact that no new pictures from Chengdu were posted for a while. If I’m correct, then the FC-1/JF-17 are manufactured at factory 132 in Chengdu (??) … If larger numbers of factory fresh serial machines were on delivery to Pakistan … I think at least someone should have noticed that event !???
Any idea why not ? :confused:
Cheers, Deino
PS: regarding no. 26 sqn ... a very good friend of mine made this "what-if" JH-7A in PAF-service ! Maybe You like it. :D
By: medal64
- 9th March 2009 at 14:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pakistan has agreed with China on the production of 42 JF-17 fighter
11:20 09/03/2009
NEW DELHI, March 9 - RIA Novosti, Eugene Bezeq. Representatives of the Pakistani military-industrial complex and China Chendu Aircraft on Saturday signed a contract on co-production in Pakistan, 42 combat aircraft JF-17, reported the Associated Press of Pakistan.
Previously, the parties signed a framework agreement on co-production of the aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex for voennno Air Force of Pakistan, but full-scale production has not been deployed. До сих пор партнеры собрали в Пакистане восемь самолетов JF-17. So far, partners gathered in Pakistan eight JF-17.
Signed by representatives of both companies on Saturday in Islamabad, the contract provides for the transfer of loans to Pakistan for the manufacture of aircraft components.
As stated at the signing ceremony, the commander of the Pakistani Air Force Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, the production of JF-17 will be expanded over time.
"In the first phase we will produce 15 aircraft a year, later increasing production to 30. The program will be implemented in several phases," - said Ahmed Mahmoud.
Commander expects that the first squadron of JF-17 will be formed by mid-2009 in the city of Peshawar.
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Lightweight Multi-JF-17 fighter was designed in China for the Pakistani Air Force and will be produced in Pakistan at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. At this stage the aircraft is planned to equip the Russian RD-93, but in the long term partners expect to replace it with a Chinese aircraft.
By: medal64
- 13th March 2009 at 23:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
JF-17X- A Pakistani Stealth Fighter
In what is seen as a counter to India’s effort to jointly develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia’s Sukhoi Aircraft Corp, Pakistan’s Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and China’s Chengdu Aerospace Corp (CAC) last October inked a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to jointly develop an advanced, stealthy, single-seat and single-engined derivative of the JF-17 Thunder fourth-generation light multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) that is already being co-developed by PAC and CAC. Consequently, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is expected to induct only 100 JF-17s into service between this year and 2014, and subsequently switch over to the acquisition of another 150 JF-17-derived fifth-generation stealthy MRCAs between 2015 and 2025. Present plans call for the latter MRCA to be powered by SNECMA Moteurs’ M88-3 twin-shaft bypass turbofan, incorporate a digital glass cockpit and open-architecture avionics suite, and use SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems’ Vixen 500E X-band multi-mode active phased-array radar, or AESA, an integrated electronic warfare/defensive aids suite being developed by China’s CETC, along with a helmet-mounted sighting-cum-cueing system for which systems from THALES, BAE Systems and Denel Aerospace are being evaluated. The M88 turbofan for this aircraft will have variable camber inlet guide vanes, while its high-pressure compressor will have a sixth stage, and its exhaust nozzle will be of the ejector type. The turbofan will deliver 50kN (11,250lb) of dry thrust and 75kN (17,000lb) with afterburning. The primary offensive armament to be carried by this aircraft will be two underwing-mounted Hatf-8 (also called ‘Raad’ or ‘thunder’ in Arabic) air-launched cruise missile, which has a range of 350km. For air combat engagements, the stealthy MRCA will be armed with three types of air-to-air missiles: 60km-range PL-12 beyond visual range missile; 15km-range PL-13 within visual range missile; and PL-14 ramjet-powered 100km-range missile. The latter two have been developed by China in cooperation with South Africa’s Denel Aerospace.
Posts: 263
By: Usman - 9th May 2008 at 09:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On the 8th May Pakistan Air Force conducted the second test launch of Raad cruise missile from a Mirage-IIIEA. Video of this test launch can be seen here: http://www.pakdef.info/multimedia/index.html
Posts: 414
By: Kaduna2003 - 9th May 2008 at 20:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great video of the Raad!
Thanks for sharing.
Posts: 299
By: CAT1 - 17th May 2008 at 11:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great news ............ Alan Warnes was in Pakistan in April and got some great access. He is currently writing a 200 page book on the PAF concentrating on the last 10 years - out in Dec........Can't wait!!!:D
Posts: 263
By: Usman - 17th May 2008 at 13:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Video showing a PAF pilot ejecting from a F-7P at Kamra AB just after take-off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke3Ws9t-KiA
Posts: 438
By: Buddha - 17th May 2008 at 13:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Will this included any new information on PAF shoot downs of Russian / Afghanistan helicopters during the 1979 - 1989 period??
Posts: 299
By: CAT1 - 17th May 2008 at 17:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
From what I know this book will concentrate on the last 10 years.
Posts: 38
By: musangpulut - 3rd June 2008 at 11:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
hi! can somebody here post a PAF's F-16A Serial No. 82-723 which shoot down two Su-22s on single sortie in 1986? wanna see it's kill marking. thanks
Posts: 120
By: soundbarrier - 3rd June 2008 at 13:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I can wait. His writing is o.k. but his pictures are crap.... :DPosts: 73
By: Adil - 16th September 2008 at 23:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The venerable Mirage III still seems to be going strong with the PAF. These recent pictures and viedo suggest an in flight refuelling probe has been added along with a modern cockpit layout, possibly as part of the ROSE III retro-fit.
The video shows the new defence minister visiting a PAF facility and includes some cockpit layout shots of the mirage and exterior shots of the JF-17.
The PAF has selected 3-4 Il-78 Midas tankers for refuelling duties, the first of which should be with the PAF in a couple of months time. However, this still leaves a secondary requirment for refuelling the F-16, which I'm guessing will be privided by surplus ex-USAF KC-135 tankers? The KC-10 would have been a more suitable choice with extra pods on the wngs, as that would have allowed refuelling of mixed JF-17 and F16 formations from a single platform
More news of future acquisitions of the PAF were elluded to by the recent interview of the ACM by AFM last month. These include the Erieye, KJ-200 and FC20 (J10 in PAF service). It sure will be really interesting to see how the Chinese systems intergrate with the western origin platforms such as the Erieyes, and vice versa with the F16s and the KJ-200. It will also be interesting to see how the FC20 differs from its Chinese J10 counterpart. The PAF have been quite experienced, with some success, in intergrating western technology in Chinese origing aircraft in the past, so shoud be quite interesting.
Pictures and video courtesy of PakDef.info
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312815326750918156&hl=en
Posts: 12,009
By: SOC - 17th September 2008 at 05:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There is an Israeli drop tank that features a probe enabling F-16s to use the hose-and-drogue refueling method. Maybe that's an option, and then you can rely solely on the MIDAS tankers. KC-10s? Not a chance, they're overused in the USAF as it is. KC-135s? Equally unlikely if you ask me. You don't want an E model that'll last for about five minutes, and the R models are being used and abused! Plus, with the state of the tanker program for the USAF, they may not want to be parting with any air refueling assets anytime soon anyway :rolleyes:
Perhaps the best choice would've been an Airbus or Boeing tanker design, complete with both boom and wingtip drogue pods? More expensive, not available quite as quickly, but it'd have worked, in theory, with the whole fleet. The only question is whether Pakistan needs two different tankers due to potentially different probes and drogue interfaces on the Western and Eastern fighters and A/R aircraft.
Posts: 73
By: Adil - 17th September 2008 at 15:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the Islraeli's don't use the probe equipped tanks that often, I'm geussing it probably has quite an impact in terms of weight and aerodynamics on the aircraft.
The PAF will definately need 2 different tankers, particularly if they want to refuel the F16s, the rest of the fleet will have probe refuelling. While at Farborough this year I had a chat with a sales rep from EADS at their stand, they were showing their latest A330 based tanker. While chatting with him about the US tanker competition debacle, I asked him about the PAF. Apparantley the PAF are in talks with EADS over converting some ex-PIA A310s into dual boom/probe tankers, although when or if this ever comes to light is anyones guess.
Posts: 263
By: Usman - 17th September 2008 at 16:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Attaching two pics with Soviet/Afghan kill markings.
Posts: 414
By: Kaduna2003 - 17th September 2008 at 18:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thats a lovely pic and makes for an excellent precision strike platform!!
Do you have any details on what the ROSE-III upgrade consists of? I had heard a rumour that it included the ability to fire MICA. Is that true?
Posts: 73
By: Adil - 17th September 2008 at 20:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't know the exact details, but it does involve a FIAR Grifo bvr radar, multifunction displays, mission computers, FLIR in the nose section, Atlis II targetting pod and other enhancements, as I say, I dont know the exact details, so not sure if they can use the MICA.
Posts: 1,615
By: vikasrehman - 17th September 2008 at 20:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Adil, if i remeber correctly ROSE III was an extension of ROSE II adding FLIR to Sagem MAESTRO Nav/Attack system and I dont think it involves a radar upgared. After ROSE III came ROSE IV, and though im not aware of it current status I think it should have finsihed by now or quite close to it. I might be wrong but addition of IFR probe might be part of ROSE V.
Posts: 73
By: Adil - 17th September 2008 at 21:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, I think you are right, perhaps I didn't make it clear, I was referring to the complete upgrade from Rose I, which included the Grifo M radar, if I remember correctly
Posts: 4,082
By: Deino - 7th March 2009 at 22:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I just did not want to add any further JF-17/FC-1 related questions or remarks to the Tejas topic, therefore I “moved” this to the PAF-tread, but this post I found interesting:
Even if I have my doubts about that huge progress I surely will wait a few weeks !
Anyway what makes me wonder is the fact that no new pictures from Chengdu were posted for a while. If I’m correct, then the FC-1/JF-17 are manufactured at factory 132 in Chengdu (??) … If larger numbers of factory fresh serial machines were on delivery to Pakistan … I think at least someone should have noticed that event !???
Any idea why not ? :confused:
Cheers, Deino
PS: regarding no. 26 sqn ... a very good friend of mine made this "what-if" JH-7A in PAF-service ! Maybe You like it. :D
http://www.airlinebuzz.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61511
Posts: 1,114
By: medal64 - 9th March 2009 at 14:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pakistan has agreed with China on the production of 42 JF-17 fighter
11:20 09/03/2009
NEW DELHI, March 9 - RIA Novosti, Eugene Bezeq. Representatives of the Pakistani military-industrial complex and China Chendu Aircraft on Saturday signed a contract on co-production in Pakistan, 42 combat aircraft JF-17, reported the Associated Press of Pakistan.
Previously, the parties signed a framework agreement on co-production of the aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex for voennno Air Force of Pakistan, but full-scale production has not been deployed. До сих пор партнеры собрали в Пакистане восемь самолетов JF-17. So far, partners gathered in Pakistan eight JF-17.
Signed by representatives of both companies on Saturday in Islamabad, the contract provides for the transfer of loans to Pakistan for the manufacture of aircraft components.
As stated at the signing ceremony, the commander of the Pakistani Air Force Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, the production of JF-17 will be expanded over time.
"In the first phase we will produce 15 aircraft a year, later increasing production to 30. The program will be implemented in several phases," - said Ahmed Mahmoud.
Commander expects that the first squadron of JF-17 will be formed by mid-2009 in the city of Peshawar.
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Lightweight Multi-JF-17 fighter was designed in China for the Pakistani Air Force and will be produced in Pakistan at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. At this stage the aircraft is planned to equip the Russian RD-93, but in the long term partners expect to replace it with a Chinese aircraft.
Posts: 1,114
By: medal64 - 13th March 2009 at 23:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
JF-17X- A Pakistani Stealth Fighter
In what is seen as a counter to India’s effort to jointly develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia’s Sukhoi Aircraft Corp, Pakistan’s Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and China’s Chengdu Aerospace Corp (CAC) last October inked a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to jointly develop an advanced, stealthy, single-seat and single-engined derivative of the JF-17 Thunder fourth-generation light multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) that is already being co-developed by PAC and CAC. Consequently, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is expected to induct only 100 JF-17s into service between this year and 2014, and subsequently switch over to the acquisition of another 150 JF-17-derived fifth-generation stealthy MRCAs between 2015 and 2025. Present plans call for the latter MRCA to be powered by SNECMA Moteurs’ M88-3 twin-shaft bypass turbofan, incorporate a digital glass cockpit and open-architecture avionics suite, and use SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems’ Vixen 500E X-band multi-mode active phased-array radar, or AESA, an integrated electronic warfare/defensive aids suite being developed by China’s CETC, along with a helmet-mounted sighting-cum-cueing system for which systems from THALES, BAE Systems and Denel Aerospace are being evaluated. The M88 turbofan for this aircraft will have variable camber inlet guide vanes, while its high-pressure compressor will have a sixth stage, and its exhaust nozzle will be of the ejector type. The turbofan will deliver 50kN (11,250lb) of dry thrust and 75kN (17,000lb) with afterburning. The primary offensive armament to be carried by this aircraft will be two underwing-mounted Hatf-8 (also called ‘Raad’ or ‘thunder’ in Arabic) air-launched cruise missile, which has a range of 350km. For air combat engagements, the stealthy MRCA will be armed with three types of air-to-air missiles: 60km-range PL-12 beyond visual range missile; 15km-range PL-13 within visual range missile; and PL-14 ramjet-powered 100km-range missile. The latter two have been developed by China in cooperation with South Africa’s Denel Aerospace.
source:http://www.defenceaviation.com/2009/01/jf-17x-pakistani-stealth-fighter.html
Posts: 920
By: Griffon39 - 14th March 2009 at 00:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yeah.. Good luck with that one.
Why the h-ll not save the well needed bucks to buy the famous J-xx of the shelf instead, when it becomes available?