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    #41
    NO, its 2 . Tango's is a repost of what I had posted earlier.

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      #42
      ok my bad, the third crash was in dec.
      In Search Of Consciousness

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        #43
        Originally posted by Nick_76 View Post
        Mohammad, DSCA is the first part of the process..once it gets cleared, then its up for financing. Every year Pak has a 300 Million $ cap, out of which it will have to pay a substantial chunk for financing the more expensive projects - eg the 54 MLU+New F-16s, rest is then split amongst the remaining "wishlist" in the DSCA. At this time, the US side can review & release items that they agree to or which Pak can afford, depending upon Paks priorities as well. All in all, the DSCA list is merely a shopping list, and nothing on it - bar what has already appeared on the contracts, is certain, for sure.

        The financial cap apart, the Democrat congress has now introduced HR1 based on the 9/11 commission hearings to withhold military aid to Pakistan to make the Pak Army/ ISI wholeheartedly support the US in Afghanistan.

        Based on the above, its possible that even the 300 Million$ pipeline from the US could close.

        The alternative, is of course, for Pak to buy its arms out of its own pocket, like India does.

        Lastly, if we see the list above, it serves as a useful reference of what Pakistan has actually purchased/ recieved, as compared to what items, tires it has kicked or merely expressed an interest in.

        As you can make out, a couple of big ticket purchases- PGMs or P3s with AEW alone, can use up the 300 Million tranche for years to come, unless the US agrees to very liberal financing terms (unlikely, as I said above) and hence use up the quota - all the other items, such as RF TOW2As , well Pak might have to pay for them out of its own pocket, and it might prove to be a bit too much for Pak.
        I wish the bill is passed and sanctions are put on Pakistan. That infact is in the best interest of Pakistan. I dont understand why Pakistani Govt wants to spend so much on procuring arms from unreliable countries instead of investing the same in research and development with reliable countries like China. After Pressler's amendment, this surely is going to give a good signal to Pakistan.

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          #44
          Originally posted by qsaark View Post
          I wish the bill is passed and sanctions are put on Pakistan. That infact is in the best interest of Pakistan. I dont understand why Pakistani Govt wants to spend so much on procuring arms from unreliable countries instead of investing the same in research and development with reliable countries like China. After Pressler's amendment, this surely is going to give a good signal to Pakistan.
          I think Pakisatn is heading that way.. But Orion is a good procument cost that area is the weakest of China military--Anti-Sub platform... Other than that,anything from China is fine!
          Take control of yrself and u will control the world!

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            #45
            Originally posted by qsaark View Post
            I wish the bill is passed and sanctions are put on Pakistan. That infact is in the best interest of Pakistan. I dont understand why Pakistani Govt wants to spend so much on procuring arms from unreliable countries instead of investing the same in research and development with reliable countries like China. After Pressler's amendment, this surely is going to give a good signal to Pakistan.
            What money?! The economical help (money!) from the USA is not rejected from Pakistan!

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              #46
              Originally posted by Sens View Post
              What money?! The economical help (money!) from the USA is not rejected from Pakistan!
              I guess you mixed Pakistan with Israel. Pakistan 'buys' most of its arms and gets few in donation.

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                #47
                I dont think so if there is any information available regarding how much % of the US aid (which doesnt even covers the indirect costs of Afghan war on Pakistan) is being spent on F-16s. Apart from F-16s, amount worth of significant money has gone into purchase of other equipment too.

                PAF must be concerned about the recent crash rates, They seem to be getting worse and worse, I hope they dont go as bad as undia's mig-21 crashes.
                www.JF-17.com

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                  #48
                  Originally posted by phrozenflame View Post
                  I dont think so if there is any information available regarding how much % of the US aid (which doesnt even covers the indirect costs of Afghan war on Pakistan) is being spent on F-16s.
                  That information is available. 144 Million in the initial batch.

                  Apart from F-16s, amount worth of significant money has gone into purchase of other equipment too.
                  The list above shows that, but the 300 Million cap only allows for a very limited amount (vs the wishlist) to be included in the grants.

                  PAF must be concerned about the recent crash rates, They seem to be getting worse and worse, I hope they dont go as bad as undia's mig-21 crashes.
                  India's MiG-21 crash issues have been solved by phasing out the earlier gen attrition prone FL's and M's. I would sugges that unless Pakistan phases out its Mirage fleet, these problems will only worsen.

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                    #49
                    Originally posted by qsaark View Post
                    I guess you mixed Pakistan with Israel. Pakistan 'buys' most of its arms and gets few in donation.
                    What Pakistan has got from the US, is mostly donation. The best equipment in Pak service today, is mostly donation, bar the Agostas.

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                      #50
                      Originally posted by Nick_76 View Post
                      India's MiG-21 crash issues have been solved by phasing out the earlier gen attrition prone FL's and M's. I would sugges that unless Pakistan phases out its Mirage fleet, these problems will only worsen.
                      Precisely,and that is already happening with JF-17 coming in this yr March with initial 16 JF-17,meaning the least favour condition 16 Mirage can retired.
                      Take control of yrself and u will control the world!

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                        #51
                        Originally posted by Nick_76 View Post
                        What Pakistan has got from the US, is mostly donation. The best equipment in Pak service today, is mostly donation, bar the Agostas.
                        Please provide us with the proof.

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                          #52
                          Originally posted by qsaark View Post
                          I guess you mixed Pakistan with Israel. Pakistan 'buys' most of its arms and gets few in donation.
                          Wrong. Pakistan received a lot of economical help and not all have to be payed back. That allows the Pakistani government to use part of its government spendings for arms procurement. The USA are well aware, about the internal politics and proud of Pakistani people. So they does not insist similar to Israel, that all that money have to be spent on US-weaponary.

                          Comment


                            #53
                            Sources also revealed that Pakistan would start getting supply of 18 planes of the latest version of US F-16 from next month. The test flights of first batch of F-16 Block 50/52 made for Pakistan have been initiated and the same would be on its way to Pakistan some time next month. The supply of the whole USD three billion package including 26 planes of embargoed version of A/B of F-16 will be completed in 2009. Pakistan also has an option to buy another batch of brand new F-16 Block 50/52 fitted with weapon system, but Islamabad still has to make up its mind in this regard, the sources added.
                            http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=5690

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                              #54
                              http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp#17902

                              PAF F-7 fighter jet crashes in Karachi
                              Updated at 1320 PST
                              KARACHI (By Afzal Nadeem): A Pakistan Air Force (PAF) jet crashed Thursday after hitting a bird as it approached an air base for landing, PAF sources said. The pilot of the F-7 fighter jet ejected safely.

                              The plane was crashed within the perimeter of Masroor base in the southern port city of Karachi, after hitting a bird as it approached the air base for landing during a routine training flight.

                              The pilot of the jet ejected safely before it crashed No injuries were reported on the ground.

                              Police and Rangers officials and ambulances reached to the site of the incident, after reports of the plane crash.

                              Comment


                                #55
                                Originally posted by qsaark View Post
                                Please provide us with the proof.
                                Did Pakistan pay out of its own pocket for the AN/TPS-77, F-16 Block 50/2, AMRAAM, Harpoon? The answer is obvious.

                                Compare these to JF-17, SD-10, Bakhtar Shikan, YLC etc.

                                The former are generally more sophisticated, versatile, expensive and donated.

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  Dems threaten Pakistani arms deal

                                  BARRY SCHWEID

                                  Associated Press

                                  WASHINGTON - Senate Democrats are threatening to withhold delivery of jet fighter planes to Pakistan if it does not intensify its campaign against terrorists.

                                  The Bush administration opposed an even tougher move in the House that would condition U.S. military aid to stronger anti-terror efforts. Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher told a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee Wednesday the arms package should not be held out as a reward to Pakistan.

                                  Boucher said Pakistan is fighting Taliban militia for its own good and that the United States and other nations benefit as a result.

                                  At stake is the long-delayed sale of 18 new jet fighters, an opportunity to buy 18 more and refurbishing 34 used aircraft already in Pakistan's air force arsenal.

                                  Three Democratic senators - John Kerry of Massachusetts, Christopher Dodd of Connecticut and Joe Biden of Delaware - put the threat in the form of a nonbinding resolution.

                                  Its aim is to make clear to Pakistan that U.S. military assistance will be assessed in how hard the South Asian ally cracks down on Taliban forces, which are expected to launch a spring offensive in Afghanistan from havens in Pakistan, and on the al-Qaida terror network.

                                  "We must never forget the importance of going after the terrorists before they strike," Kerry said.

                                  At the House hearing, meanwhile, Chairman Gary Ackerman, D-N.Y., told Boucher that many members of Congress were "puzzled why we are not doing more to put in some backbone" with Pakistan.

                                  "We would like to see a little more muscle behind the policy," Ackerman said.

                                  In the same vein, Rep. David Scott, D-Ga., told Boucher: "I do not believe we are making all the progress we should be making." Scott said the terrorists had havens in Pakistan's border areas and "it doesn't seem we are getting our money's worth" from U.S. assistance to Pakistan.

                                  But Boucher described Pakistan as "a vital partner and ally in our fight against the Taliban and al-Qaida."

                                  The State Department official said the solution was not entirely a military one. Boucher said the Pakistan president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, was pursuing economic and social reform in the border areas where terrorists have havens.

                                  The Bush administration is supporting the effort, but Boucher did not specify how much U.S. assistance will go into it.

                                  "We will continue to work with the government of Pakistan to develop a long-term strategic partnership that is multifaceted and committed to the peace and security" of the region, he said.

                                  http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/16854807.htm

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    Unfortunately, US legislators are oversimplifying the things. They have no clue how difficult the Afghan-Pakistan border is. Not only the terrain but the kind of people living in the border areas. With all modern equipment at her disposal, US has not been able to 100% close its border with Mexico which is just a plain desert. However, as I mentioned earlier, this bill is a blessing in disguise. It'd be in the best interest of Pakistan if the sanctions are placed.

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                                      #58
                                      Us legislators saw how Pakistan pulled a Taliban #3 out hours after Cheney's visit. They know that Pakistan probably has terrorists hidden for future release. Why not use F-16s as bargain for those people? Good idea IMO.

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                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by Bandit78 View Post
                                        Us legislators saw how Pakistan pulled a Taliban #3 out hours after Cheney's visit. They know that Pakistan probably has terrorists hidden for future release. Why not use F-16s as bargain for those people? Good idea IMO.
                                        You are referring to a unconformed report. Anyway, sooner or later Pakistan will have to decide how far it can go for 'bargains' of this sort. Just to clear the record, Taliban had no problem with US. However, when they were asked to surrender Usama bin Laden (or else!), they agreed to do so once they were provided with credible evidence of his involvement in 9/11.
                                        Last edited by qsaark; 8th March 2007, 05:15.

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                                          #60
                                          there r rumours that antonov an124 has arrived in pakistan carrying 2 jf-17s (pt-04 and pt-06). any news or clarifications?

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