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By: - 26th December 2005 at 13:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pit had posted this some time back , Since Its relivent and related to the Su-35 (T-10BM) posting it once again
Its an advanced Flanker constructed along new technologies derived from both the MKI and MKK trends plus more:
1) LO improvments to the whole aircraft an its weaponry (thanks to big advancements made by ITAE between others)
2) New weapons (Including Ks-172S-1 and Yakhont-M plus more)
3) 25% save of take off weight due to all new composites material construction that allows increased fuel and weapons load
4) Sensor Fussion based avionics with more than 150 aerials and sensors united into a single system
5) New radar and EO complex based around NIIP Irbis or NIIR N-031 Zhuk-MSFE
6) New engines of the AL-41F1 class
7) New EW System/Compleks Khybini-M
8) New and advanced cockpit arrangement with only two big MFD, new HUD and a HMD for the pilot (being researched wth some doubts from pilots due increased weight)
Sagem is trying to introduce some equipment and weaponry (like AASM, Sigma-95 class of INS, etc)...
The Su-27BM "should" countinue the Su-27SM program from 2007 for VVS Rus, while being called Su-35BM for export.
By: - 26th December 2005 at 13:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lets see if this gets an export order..
By: - 26th December 2005 at 13:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
With the Irbis/Osa combination this is going to have a hell of a sensor package. It will be interesting to see if multiple variants are produces, ie two seat examples, and if the improvesments of the Su-35BM are transferred to the Su-34?
By: - 26th December 2005 at 13:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Firstly who is funding the development of this varient?? Anyway it Would have to compete with the likes of the AESA'd Eurocanards aswell as the F-35..Maybe china would show interest other then that i doubt there would be any heavy takers such as the IAF or PLAAF was to the MKI and MKK
By: - 26th December 2005 at 13:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lets see if this gets an export order..
I doubt it would be exported at least initally , Its purely meant for RuAF
Su-35BM are transferred to the Su-34?
I dont know about avionics , But after 2010 the Su-34 is slated to get the AL-41F1 engine , The AL-31FM is a stop gap arrangement , The AL-41F1 will give the Su-34 a supercruise capability.
By: - 26th December 2005 at 14:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
To be honest I think the Su-35BM would be a good match for the Eurocanards (which show no sighns of getting AESA soon) and it should be able to upgrade to AESA once it becomes available in Russia anyway.
I was under the impression that the Su-35BM designation referred to new build variants (ie-possibly for export) whilst the upgraded older model airframes were the Su-27BM?
By: - 26th December 2005 at 14:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Arent the EF and Rafale slated to get the AMSAR antenna before 2010?
By: - 26th December 2005 at 15:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I was under the impression that the Su-35BM designation referred to new build variants
If you look at the Su-35 (T-10BM ) , also refered to as Su-35BM now and then , Its actually a redesigned aircraft and as the name suggest its a Big Modernisation , from Pit post " 25% save of take off weight due to all new composites material construction that allows increased fuel and weapons load" , Indeed a radical change and hence referred to as 4++ gen fighter by Russia.
Enhanced use of composite materials and the new Al-41F1A engine should give the BM sustained supercruise capability and a High T/W ratio.
If I am not wrong the EuroCanards and Rafale will get AESA from 2012 onwards , Russian AESA is not far behind , The Russian too should have AESA by 2012 .
Infact the Russians are offering AESA for the Mig-35 MMRCA via Phazotron-NIIR Zhuk-A, an AESA derivative of the Zhuk series
By: - 26th December 2005 at 15:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I thought that there wasnt even a Demonstratable version built yet...
By: - 26th December 2005 at 16:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Su-35 will be powered by two of the new AL-41 F1A turbofans , providing 142 to 147 kN of thrust each.The AL-41F1A engine is as "transitional" as the whole Su-35 aircraft. The final production engine for the PAK-FA (T-50 ) will be the AL-41 F1 fitted - when compared with the present A version - with a new core.[/b]
After all of the years of development, the AL-41 now needs a "new core?"
I don't know what to make of this development.
By: - 26th December 2005 at 17:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
After all of the years of development, the AL-41 now needs a "new core?"
The AL-41F engine started as a project to power the Mig-1.42 5th Gen fighter , It was a 175 kN thrust engine , Then the 1.42 was cancelled and the 155 kN AL-41F1 was designed for PAK-FA based on the original AL-41F , Now the AL-41F1A is just a transitional engine for a transitional fighter Su-35BM with a thrust rating of 145 ~ 147 kN
The New Core for the AL-41F1 will power the 5th gen PAK-FA , with a Thrust rating of 155+kN .
The PAK-FA will come after 2012 most likely 2015 and the on Su-35BM will be completed by 2007
By: - 26th December 2005 at 17:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
All indications are that the PAK-FA is dead in the water.
The program specification is being revised, and Indian interest in a smaller a/c plays a role in it.
The Sukhoi T-50 project will end up being another experimental a/c akin to the S-37.
What is referred here to as the T-10BM is indeed a very good design and has a chance to become the main RuAF fighter for decades to come, along with, perhaps, MiG-35.
By: - 26th December 2005 at 18:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Arent the EF and Rafale slated to get the AMSAR antenna before 2010?
About the Typhoon, no idea.
2012 for the RAfale, unless a customer want it before that date. According to what he paid, it will be more or less quicker.
By: - 26th December 2005 at 18:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
All indications are that the PAK-FA is dead in the water. The program specification is being revised, and Indian interest in a smaller a/c plays a role in it.
And who gave you that indications , The PAK-FA program is continuing , although the newer miltech 11/2005 says that the Russian are waiting for the JSF program to evolve to study it and partly because of fund crunch , No where does it mentions its dead infact its a priority program for RuAF.
The Indian are opting or showing interest in Mig design because they are not interested in a heavy fighter , The Mig 5th Gen design is a medium weight 25 Ton MTOW and is a single engine fighter , where as PAK-FA is in the Su class twin engine heavy fighter .
Mig design also allows greater customisation for Inida tailored according to India's needs the PAK-FA is more of F-22 class with Russian specification greatly influencing it.
The Sukhoi T-50 project will end up being another experimental a/c akin to the S-37.
The PAK-FA design is still classified but unofficial picture even showed in latest miltech shows it to be very similar to the Raptor .
Air Force chief Vladimir Mikhailov: Russia to flight-test 5th generation fighter 2007
KUBINKA, Moscow Region, June 8 (Itar-Tass) -- The development of the fifth generation fighter proceeds in strict compliance with the schedule and the plane will be flight-tested in 2007, the commander-in-chief of the Air Force, Vladimir Mikhailov has said.
About the condition of the Russian Air Force’s fleet of aircraft Mikhailov said, “the Air Force receives planes in sufficient numbers, there are aircraft at the reserve bases, too.”
“We are also receiving new planes, including Su-34 and Su-27SM, and others still being tested. There is nothing we can criticize these planes for.”
Russian presidential adviser Alexander Burutin told reporters that the Russian Air Force by 2012 will have up to 60 percent of new aviation technologies.
“A new armament program has been developed and we shall achieve this parameter by 2010-2012,” he said.
By: - 26th December 2005 at 19:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
i guess in time we shall see what comes out of it..Would be a tremendous acheivment if Ru is able to come up with 2 fifth gen. fighters..I for one would really like it to happen..
By: - 26th December 2005 at 19:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Against all odds hé. :D
By: - 26th December 2005 at 19:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Anybody know why they decided to leave off the canard, do these have TVC, and are they newbuild or rebuilds?
By: - 26th December 2005 at 21:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Pit had posted this some time back , Since Its relivent and related to the Su-35 (T-10BM) posting it once againIts an advanced Flanker constructed along new technologies derived from both the MKI and MKK trends plus more:
1) LO improvments to the whole aircraft an its weaponry (thanks to big advancements made by ITAE between others)
2) New weapons (Including Ks-172S-1 and Yakhont-M plus more)
3) 25% save of take off weight due to all new composites material construction that allows increased fuel and weapons load
4) Sensor Fussion based avionics with more than 150 aerials and sensors united into a single system
5) New radar and EO complex based around NIIP Irbis or NIIR N-031 Zhuk-MSFE
6) New engines of the AL-41F1 class
7) New EW System/Compleks Khybini-M
8) New and advanced cockpit arrangement with only two big MFD, new HUD and a HMD for the pilot (being researched wth some doubts from pilots due increased weight)
Sagem is trying to introduce some equipment and weaponry (like AASM, Sigma-95 class of INS, etc)...
The Su-27BM "should" countinue the Su-27SM program from 2007 for VVS Rus, while being called Su-35BM for export.
At least the claim about "25% save of take off weight due ...." is nonsense. Effective gains are ~10 % at best. Many new items still in the prototyp stage.
So wait and see, which of the prospects given will be fullfilled in 2008?!
By: - 26th December 2005 at 21:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
To be honest I think the Su-35BM would be a good match for the Eurocanards (which show no sighns of getting AESA soon) and it should be able to upgrade to AESA once it becomes available in Russia anyway.
I was under the impression that the Su-35BM designation referred to new build variants (ie-possibly for export) whilst the upgraded older model airframes were the Su-27BM?
You are right about that.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 04:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey guys
just a quick question, would the SU-35 BM be able to supercruise like the F-22 (with the AL-41s) for example or are there airframe complications such as the high drag weapon load or structural concerns? And any idea on how much more stealthy would it be in comparison to a base model vanilla flanker or in contrast to the Typhoon or the Rafale. Thanks
Posts: 6,186
By: Austin - 26th December 2005 at 12:41
Su-35 Big Modernisation Project
Janes IDR
March 2005
Piotr Butowski
Photo Credit Janes
New Features Of the Su-35 ( T-10BM Big Modernisation )
1 - N035 Irbis Radar
2 - No canards
3 - Rear-looking self-defence radar in shorter tail sting
4 - AL-41F1A turbofan engines rated at 147kN
5 - Extended high-lift devices with large flaperon occuping the full trailing edge
6 - L175M Khibiny-M electronic-warfare self-defence system
7 - Reduced-area empennage
8 - Larger Air Intakes
9 - New and lighter systems, including quadruple digital fly-by-wire flight-control system.
10- New man-machine interface with fully-glass cockpit with two large LCD screens and helmet mounted display.
The OKB Sukhoi design bureau and the KnAAPO factory are now focusing their attention on a project with the internal designation T-10BM ( Big Modernisation ) and the official designation Su-35 , The one and the only presentation so far of this new edition of the Su-35 was a model that was put on display in December 2003 in Dubai.
The Designation Su-35 has a long history , In 1992 , Sukhoi assigned the designation Su-35 to the export version of the Su-27M ( T-10M) fighter fitted with canards and the N011 radar. Series production of the Su-27M started in Komsomolsk during the last days of the Soviet Union. Five of the 15 manufactured fighters ( including the prototypes ) are presently in service with the 237th Regiment at Kubinka Air Base near Moscow ; several others are used as experimental aircraft. The Su-35 was offered without sucess to several countries including South Korea,UAE and Malaysia and is presently taking part in competition in Brazil. It should be noted that this Su-35 is a new project and not a Su-27M.
The demand for Su-27/Su-30 fighters as they are manufactured currently bu KnAAPO has been nearly fulfilled and it is still a long way to Russias new-generation fighter the PAK-FA. On 26 April 2002 , a government committe chose Sukhoi's T-50 offer in the contest for the 5th gen fighter PAK-FA fighter , On 10 December 2004 Sukhoi submitted the T-50 pilot project for approval by the airforce.
Statements made then say that the prototype T-50 will fly near the end of 2007 and its series production will commence in Komsomolsk around 2012-15.
The Su-35 ( T-10BM) should fill the interim period. Therefore 2007 has been declared by the Sukhoi design bureau as the year when the work on the Su-35 is to be completed , Another objective of the Su-35 programme is to gradually test and implement solutions under development for the T-50. The "transitional" fighter Su-35 is being realised by the same co-operating parties that take part in the T-50 programme. The absence of subsystems and components imported from beyond Russia in the Su-35 project is regarded as being a great advantage for the Russian Air Force as well as for some foreign customers , such as China.
The Russian aerospace community takes delight in subdividing fighter aircraft aircraft into generations . According to their Classification , the Su-27 is a fourth-generation fighter , the Su-30 MKI/MKK belong to the 4+ (four plus ) generation , The new Su-35 (T-10BM) will belong to generation 4++ and the future PAK FA (T-50) will be a fifth generation fighter. There is also a 5- ( five minus ) generation which includes the early series of the PAK-FA ( T-50 airframe with temporary equipment from the Su-35 )
Photo Credit Janes
The external appearence of the new Su-35 ( T-10BM) is more similar to the Su-27 than to the former Su-35 ( T-10M):
1 ) It has no canards
2 ) The fins are smaller than before and the sting protruding rearwards between the engines is shorter.
3 ) The high-lift devices have been changed and are similar to those applied to the Su-33 shipborne fighter with big flaperons occupying the whole trailing edge of the wing.
4 ) The Su-35 will be powered by two of the new AL-41 F1A turbofans , providing 142 to 147 kN of thrust each.The AL-41F1A engine is as "transitional" as the whole Su-35 aircraft. The final production engine for the PAK-FA (T-50 ) will be the AL-41 F1 fitted - when compared with the present A version - with a new core.
In July 2003, all the leading Russian air engine manufacturers signed an aggrement to work together on this.
The Tikhomirov NIIP institute in Zhukovsky is now designing for the Su-35 the new N035 Irbis radar with passive electronic scanning . When compared to BARS the Irbis radars antenna is suspended on a quick-fastened console rotating in azimuth by 50 to 60*(degree) to each side ( therefore securing a field of regard of more than 200* ) ; the console is additionally rotated in roll.
The Su-35 has also a small radar installed inside the sting between the engines and looking aft. Such an idea has been developing in Russia since mid-1980: rear-looking radars were installed on several prototypes of the 'old' Su-27M/Su-35 ( N012 radar designed by NIIR Rassvet) , to the Mig-1.42 ( Rassvet N015) and to the Su-27IB ( V005 radar by Leninets ) . At the same time , tests were made of the air to air missiles launched rearwards. The interest in this concept declined and only came back in early 2000s. The Tikhomirov NIIP institute suggests for this purpose its passive phased array radar Osa and is expected to announce a new active phased-array radar of this class within the next few months.
The model of the Su-35 (BM) shown in Dubai in December 2003 carried an interesting armament . A large supersonic anti-ship missile of the Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos family ( depending on the customers requirement , each of the missiles variants may be used ) was carried between the engines.
Under the wings were two ultra-long range KS-172S-1 air to air missiles developed by the Novator Company of Yekaterinburg. This was the first presentation of this missile after 10 years of silence ( in August 1993 , in Zhukovsky a full-size mockup of the KS-172 missile was shown with the Su-30 fighter ).
The maximum range of the KS-172, stated by Novator is 300 km. The missile is to be used against targets flying at any altitude betwenn 10 - 100000 ft with speeds of up to 4000 km/h and with g-loads up to 12 , including all types of aircraft , as well as long and medium range anti-aircraft missile ( in self defense ). The remaining weapons seen on the Su-35 model were standard Kh-31 air to surface missiles and R-77 and R-73 air to air missiles.
An announcement by the Ramenskoye PKB Company, the manufacturer of avionics for both PAK-FA and Su-35 , said there will not be any analogue instruments in the Su-35 cockpit. In front of the pilot there will be only two liquid crystal displays ; additionally the essential information will be repeted on the pilots helmet screen
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