who made the Su37s reaward looking radar?

By: Scorpion82 - 13th August 2005 at 15:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

The first important thing to note is that there exists no Su-37! The only aircraft designated as Su-37 was the fifth pre series Su-35 (No. 711). The aircraft was first flown on 2nd April in 1996. It differend from the basic Su-35 by it's AL-31FU TVC engines, a modified cockpit and N-011M radar as well as some additional equipement like SATCOM, ELINT/SIGINT etc. However some of the systems were french and the russians removed them during a modification phase. The TVC engines were removed as well, but the FCS was improved to use the control surfaces more effectivly. The modified No.711 was first flown in summer 2000 and the designation Su-37 was given up and the aircraft was renamed to Su-35 again. The No.711 crashed on 19th december 2002. At all the Su-35 is dead as no one wants it. There is a new Su-35BM, which is no Su-35 developement but a further upgrade for the basic Su-27 in future.

AFAIK the N-012 was developed by NIIP and is or will be only used operationally on the Su-32IB (official in service designation of the Su-27Ib aka Su-34). It seems to be unlikely that the N-012 is a further developement of the Kopyo radar of the MiG-21 as that wouldn't fit into the tail cone of the aircraft I think.

By: Flanker_man - 13th August 2005 at 20:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

the Su-32IB (official in service designation of the Su-27Ib aka Su-34).

Where did you get that ???

I thought that Su-27IB was the official, in-service designation - and that Su-32/34 were just Sukhoi names.

On the other hand, Su-27K was the official designation for the shipborne variant (T-10K) and Su-33 was just the Sukhoi number.

However, the military conceded on the Su-33 - and that is now its official designation.

I thought that Su-34 had gone the same way ????

Interesting therefore that the participation list for MAKS 05 :- http://www.aviasalon.com/en/programme/la/ - see number 99 - shows a Su-27IB of the VVS as attending.

I'll try and check it out next Saturday...................

Ken

By: Scorpion82 - 14th August 2005 at 01:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Originally Posted by Scorpion82
the Su-32IB (official in service designation of the Su-27Ib aka Su-34).

Where did you get that ???

Hi Flankerman,
I read that in the not to distant past. But I can't remember where it exactly was. If I can figure out the exact source again I will let you know.

@sealordlawrence,
try to search at google for N012+manufacturer (NIIP or phazatron) maybe you get a source for that. I mean to remember that it was NIIP, but I'm not to 100% sure for that.

By: paralay - 14th August 2005 at 17:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Source «overscan – aerospacetech».

N011 This radar design was initiated in the early/mid 80s for the Su-27M program by Tamerlan Bekirbayev, drawing on experience gained with the original, unachievable Myech design and the experimental Soyuz program by NPO Istok. It was not without problems, and fell victim to a decision that all future radars should be phased-array, despite the greater cost. NIIP drew on technology from their cancelled N014 radar intended for the MFI to improve the N011 with a passive phased array antenna and better signal processing. N011 Mechanically scanned 960mm planar array antenna, ± 85° coverage. Said to be heavier than the N001. Uses a multimode wideband TWT transmitter with peak power output of 8 kW, and average of 2 kW. It features a low noise UHF input amplifier, and full digital signal processing using reprogrammable digital computers. Tough requirements, to track 20 targets and engage 8 simultaneously over a wide area, proved impossible to achieve with a mechanically scanned antenna. Initial versions proved able to track 13 aerial targets and engage four, which with further development could be extended to 15 and 6 respectively. It has five air-to-ground and four maritime modes. The maximum search range for large air targets such as airborne early warning and control aircraft is 400km, 140km against a head-on fighter-class target, 65km tail-on. In an air-to-ground mode, it can acquire surface targets at ranges of up to 200km, and undertake ground mapping, terrain- following and terrain-avoidance missions. Further development of the N011 is unlikely.

N011M Bars is an upgraded phased array antenna version of the N011. Under development since the early 1990s, two prototype N011M radars were produced, of which one was flight tested in Su-27M prototype "712". It is now in production, and is currently fitted to the Su-30MKI. Antenna diameter is 1m, antenna gain 36dB, the main sidelobe level is -25dB, average sidelobe level is -48dB, beamwidth is 2.4° with 12 distinct beam shapes. The antenna weighs 110kg. It is both mechanically and electronically scanned to give increased field of view over a fixed phased array antenna and also to allow the radar to be tilted away when not in use, decreasing RCS. Two variants were initially proposed, the first was both electronically and mechanically scanned in azimuth (±30° mechanically plus ±60° electronically, for a total coverage of ±90°) and electronically scanned in elevation (±60°). The second was mechanically and electronically scanned in both azimuth and elevation (±90° in both axes). The N011M fitted to the Su-30MKI was the first type, but in testing the passive phased array proved unable to be electronically steered greater than 40° without unacceptable degredation of performance. Therefore scanning limits are reduced to ±70° (±30° mechanically, ±40° electronically) in azimuth and ±40° in elevation. Peak power output is 4-5kW, average power output is 1.2kW. Ts200 PSP (Programmable Signal Processor)
Data entry speed: 28 MHz
Peak performance on fourier transforms of "butterfly" type: 75 Million operations per second.
Radar control processor
Number of processors: 3
Processor RAM (or possibly Flash memory): 16 Mb
Processor ROM: 16 Mb
Weight of complete radar system is 650kg.
Initially India were supposed to construct both programmable signal processors (PSP) and data processors (RC) under project "Vetrivale" to replace the original Russian components. Unfortunately, LRDE expressed their inability to develop the system within the envisaged time frame, especially in view of the non-finalisation of the required technical specification by NIIP. The project therefore reverted to the Ts200 PSP originally designed for the Su-27M's N011. The initial radar data processor delivered was also Russian. The contract for the N011M radar has three stages. The initial MK1 software was tested in 2002 and supplied with the first Su-30MKI deliveries. NIIP were finalising the 2nd stage (MK2), still using the Russian data processor, in October 2003, while testing on the final (MK3) revision had also begun. MK3 incorporates the Indian-designed Vetrivale RC (radar computer) based in the i960 architecture. Currently in 2004 MK3 is still in testing. While MK2 implements most of the modes above, full capability will only be met with the 3rd stage radar. The construction, the operating system and the applied ”Bars” radar control system software support fully are compatible with Western standards, which allows their upgrade without changing the logic of the radar control system’s operation. The computer technology is executed in Western military standard form factor (Compact PCI). A Bars' test radar is said to have detected Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km, tracked several targets while volume scanning, and correctly identified aerial targets.

N012 OKB: NIIR Rassvet Tail radar used on Su-35/37 operating at decimetric wavelengths which is installed in the long tail boom between the tail pipes. This radar forms part of the aircraft's defensive aids sub-systems suite (DASS) and warns the crew of approaching threats in the rear hemisphere as well as controlling active and passive jamming responses to such threats. Claimed to have a range of 50km for a 3 sq m RCS fighter, or 100km for a large aircraft. Scans 60° in azimuth and elevation.

N014 OKB: Tikhomirov NIIP Associated with the Mikoyan 1-42/1-44 project, the passive phased array N014 radar project from NIIP was abandoned. Supposed to track 40 targets. Range up to 420km. Used in conjunction with the N012 tail radar. The antenna was scanned electronically and mechanically to increase angular coverage. Some elements or techniques from it were applied to the N011M. NIIP have experimented with bistatic radar techniques, which were probably intended for N014.

By: Harry - 14th August 2005 at 20:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

The Flanker's nose cone opens upward from the parabolic panel line. Does this mean that it takes the antenna assembly with it?

By: Flanker_man - 14th August 2005 at 22:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

The Flanker's nose cone opens upward from the parabolic panel line. Does this mean that it takes the antenna assembly with it?

Yes - on Su-27 and derivatives (Su-30MKI/MKK, Su-33, Su-27KUB etc).

Here's a pic of Zhuk-MS on the Su-27KUB......(derived from the naval Su-27K/Su-33)

The first pic has the nose open at the sloping join line....

To get at the actual antenna, the radome (the white painted part) is removed...

.

If you look at the panel lines on a Su-35 - you will see that there is no sloping join line.

The front end of a Su-35 is completely different, structurally. To get at the dish, the radome is removed - it does not have an 'opening' nose like the Su-27 series.

The Su-35 also has nose of slightly greater diameter.

Ken

By: flex297 - 15th August 2005 at 11:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

No idea what is the current status of used rearward facing radars but this device is said to be the ultimate performer in Russia with the range of over 75 km. Phazotron-NIIR Pharaon. Some sources state that Su-32/34s are being equipped with this one but I shall leave this question open..

Pharaon

By: flex297 - 15th August 2005 at 11:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

BTW, slightly off-topic but since the Su-27KUB and Su-35s have been mentioned here, does anybody have a picture of Su-35 #712? Never seen this one before.. The same goes for Su-27KUB cockpit...

By: paralay - 15th August 2005 at 18:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Special difference before other export variants “Su-27”, at Su-30MKI is presence of the newest all-weather digital radar N011М. N011М is installed on serial Su-35 (onboard №712) and the Instant is transitive to model N014 intended for a fighter of "the fifth generation” MiG 1.42. radar N011М allows to find out the purpose of type "fighter" in ППС on a distance of 350 km and to grasp it{her} on distance of 200 km. radar can represent itself as system mini-AWACS and it is capable to accompany simultaneously up to 20 purposes and to attack 8, including helicopters, ballistic and cruise missiles.
Su-30MKK. Works on Su-30M2, apparently, have been initiated by interest of the Air Forces of China in purchase of several tens planes Su-30 with the expanded shock opportunities, called to replace growing old park of bombers H-5 (Il-28) and H-6 (Tu-16).
On KnAAPO two planes (onboard numbers 501 have been collected and 502), first of which have been tested already on March, 9th, 1999. Su-30MKK (502) the first flight has carried out a board in June. In September, 1999 the contract on manufacture on KnAAPO and the subsequent delivery to China 55 fighters Su-30MKK for the sum 2 billion dollars has been signed
In difference from the Indian variant on Su-30MKK is absent “Forward horizontal plumage” and engines with “Operated vector of draft”. The vertical plumage similarly to similar at Су-35 also has powerful VHF the aerial. The plane is equipped new radar N001ВЭ (fighters Su-27SK are equipped by model H001Э) with a scope up to 100 km in a forward hemisphere and 40 km in back, systems of conducting group operations, managements of the weapon with TV-homing (rockets Х-59М, Х-29Т, Х-31П, operated aerial bombs of incorporated bank-500). Su-30MKK has 12 points of a suspension bracket and about 8 tons of the weapons are capable to carry.

The radar "Falcon" - "Zhuk MSFE" is installed on Su-33KUB.
He wished to install on PAK FA, but it will be probable to stand by the first plane radar "Irbis" with AESA.
Phazotron-NIIR Pharaon yet did not install on Su-34.
The radar "Pharaon" can be installed on Su-34, instead of him can put radar "Osa"

By: George J - 16th August 2005 at 18:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Fomin Page 166 (Su-35 chapter):

Su-27M (T10M-1/2)......RLSU-27 radar systems included the forward looking N011 slotted-antenna radar designed by NIIP...as well as the small N012 rear-looking radar built by the NIIR Rassvet institute......

Also from Fomin from the appropriate sections:

Su-27K (Su-33) Naval Flanker and Su-27KUB (Su-33UB) :side by side seating Naval Flanker Trainer. NOTE: Su-27KUB has a CIRCULAR nose.

Su-27IB ground attack derivative (derived from an -27UB) with an ELLIPITIC nose cone which houses a Leninets Phased Array Radar. The first T10V-1 did a fake/simulated deck landing on the Tbilisi in 1990 and hence is confused with the Su-27KUB.

The T10V-5 Su-27IB (Bort 45) is the first series produced and the first to get the Su-34 designation. It was designated as Su-32FN for Le Bourget'95 (Bort 349) so that it could be marketed as a Naval Strike Figther (note: it CANNOT land on a carrier).

Then in MAKs 99 other series produced Su-27IB (Su-34) were displayed as Su-32MF or a multirole fighter.

The Su-27KUB is a KNAAPO product while the Su-27IB is a NAPO product.
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By: raids13 - 16th August 2005 at 19:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Why? Why? why did Sukhoi give such confusing designations? I have to hit myself and bring me back to senses whenever i look at them. so many of them. can someone sugest me where i can read about all the variants. Has some one presented them in a systematic way?

By: George J - 16th August 2005 at 20:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

You need to get "Su-27: The Flanker Story" by Anderi Fomin. Its arguably the best book on history of the Su-27 family (at least those who matter in the IAF seem to think so). But the english edition upto 2000, so you wont find much about the MKI.
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By: raids13 - 16th August 2005 at 21:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

So even if i read that there are so many new variants. Its like they take out a new variant every 6 month sor so.

Where can i get it in Delhi any idea?