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LCA Tejas and derivatives news and discussion (reincarnated)

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  • djcross
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 5467

    Which system are you going to eliminate so the MAWS can go inside? the radar? mission computer? display computer?

    There is no such thing as a free lunch.

    Comment

    • BlackArcher
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2010
      • 4374

      Originally posted by Austin View Post
      That would be waster of Pylon , For aircraft like Su-30 with more space they need to integrate 360 Degree MAWS inside aircraft something Malysia has done with Su-30MKM and Russia with Su-35.

      For Tejas too they can integrate it inside why waste a pylon
      Read it carefully. Its 'pylon mounted' meaning that it will be integrated to a pylon. It doesn't mean that an entire pylon will be dedicated for a MAWS! And it is almost 360 deg even when mounted on the pylon. The bubble that each pylon mounted sensor views is only going to mask the area of the wing right behind the sensor.

      Terma had a similar solution for F-16 pylon mounted MAWS

      The MWS installation, which comprises a total of six sensors and one processor, offers a major modification to the F-16 self-protection suite to easily detect and decoy attacking missiles.

      While the processor is installed in the right-hand pylon, three sensors are integrated in both the left-hand and right-hand pylon to deliver nearly full spherical coverage.
      Terma pylon mounted MAWS brochure


      Missile Warning for Belgian F-16

      Similar indigenous DARE solution

      Last edited by BlackArcher; 6th September 2019, 18:30.

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      • BlackArcher
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2010
        • 4374

        Originally posted by djcross View Post
        Which system are you going to eliminate so the MAWS can go inside? the radar? mission computer? display computer?

        There is no such thing as a free lunch.
        I don't get you..why would any of those system need to be eliminated to accommodate a pylon mounted MAWS? Its a proven solution on F-16s (PIDS+) and the F-16 didn't lose its radar, mission computer or display computer as a result.

        Last edited by BlackArcher; 6th September 2019, 18:29.

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        • djcross
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2000
          • 5467

          My response was to Austin's desire to mount MAWS internally on a jet which is already densely packaged. I too believe pylon mounting is a good solution . And the pylons can support towed decoys too.

          Comment

          • BlackArcher
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2010
            • 4374

            In other news, the final price negotiations for the 73 Tejas Mk1A single seat fighters and 10 Tejas Mk1 trainers is almost complete with the unit price having being decided. The support package cost remains the only issue still being negotiated. Contract with HAL should hopefully be signed by MoD by year end.

            Apparently, the Tejas Mk1A will cost $40 million per unit. Support package cost will be additional. Pretty good for an AESA radar equipped 4th gen light fighter. The total will be much lower than the benchmarked price if the unit price is $40 million. 73 Tejas Mk1As at $40 million works out to $2.92 billion and the 10 Tejas trainers may be slightly cheaper if they keep the same configuration as the current Tejas trainer with the existing Elta 2032 radar instead of whatever AESA radar is selected for the Mk1A.

            Even with the same price, the price for 83 should be $3.32 billion. Add 50% of that cost for a support package and it works out to $4.98 billion..make it ~$5 billion.

            link to article

            "The pricing for 83 LCAs was finalised on September 3 in a meeting chaired by the Secretary Defence Production. Talks are now on for the pricing of the support package. Contracts for the LCAs and 15 Light Combat Helicopters (LCHs) will be signed in 3-to-4 months' time," Apurva Chandra, Director-General (Acquisition) in the Ministry of Defence declared at an international seminar on 'Energising Indian Aerospace Industry: Flight Plan for the Future'.

            Orders for the LCAs and LCHs will go the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which is controlled directly by the Ministry of Defence.

            The procurement of 83 LCA Mk 1A fighters has been pending since an approval in November 2016 of the benchmarked price of 50,025 Crore ($7 Billion). The unit price is reported to have been negotiated around $40 Million.

            Comment

            • BlackArcher
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2010
              • 4374

              Originally posted by djcross View Post
              My response was to Austin's desire to mount MAWS internally on a jet which is already densely packaged. I too believe pylon mounting is a good solution . And the pylons can support towed decoys too.
              Oh ok..I thought your reply was to my post. Yeah, the LCA especially is so small a jet and so densely packed, that there is barely any space to add any additional equipment on board the fuselage. It already has resulted in no space being available for an internally mounted SPJ. Consequently on the Mk1A, a dual pylon is being designed to allow for 2 BVRAAMs or CCMs to be carried and 1 pylon to be a dedicated SPJ pylon, like in the pic below

              Comment

              • TomcatViP
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Nov 2011
                • 6127

                Yes, 40m$ is obviously a good price.
                To put that in perspective, this is less than half the price asked for a EuroCanard, half the price of a massively produced F_35, 20 to 50% less that a T-50 or FA-50 and only 10m$ more than a M-345 light Training jet.
                ​​​​​​
                ​​​

                Comment

                • Spitfire9
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jul 2008
                  • 2846

                  Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post

                  Apparently, the Tejas Mk1A will cost $40 million per unit.
                  Unparalleled I think, for an AESA-equipped light fighter. If only it were not so late and a higher production rate had been organised (not the case hence IAF needs all output), HAL could start building an export market. All the same if Unknownstan or Whereveria were in the market for a handful, would be worth HAL diverting a small number to the export market to get export sales support sorted.

                  What's the market? Any country still flying MiG-21, Mirage and derivatives, F5 Tiger etc. Say 100-250 in the next decade? Get Kaveri to work (really work) and India could be a real player in the light fighter business.
                  Last edited by Spitfire9; 6th September 2019, 22:16.
                  Sum ergo cogito

                  Comment

                  • quadbike
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 3676

                    HAL actually wanted a lot more per fighter. But agreed to the deal under a bit of arm-twisting by the government and lack of other work/major contracts.
                    Love Planes, Live Planes

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                    • BlackArcher
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 4374

                      First arrested landing for Naval LCA

                      link


                      It has also put India on the world map as a nation with the capability to design a deck-landing aircraft.

                      According to sources, NP-1 (Naval Prototype), a trainer, did the first arrested landing at the shore-based test facility (SBTF) situated at INS Hansa in Goa. The SBTF replicates a static model of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) being built at the Cochin Shipyard in Kerala.

                      “Today’s milestone comes after several years of flight testing and four campaigns of dedicated testing at SBTF. It was a text-book landing,” says an official who was part of the Goa campaign. The NP-1 was piloted by Cmde J A Maolankar (Chief Test Pilot) with assistance from Capt Shivnath Dahiya (Landing Safety Officer) and Cdr J D Raturi (Test Director). “The arrested landing heralds the arrival of true indigenous capability and displays the professional prowess of our scientific community. Aeronautical Development Agency, along with design, build capabilities of HAL, DRDO and CSIR labs have played a big role in executing today’s landmark event,” says an official.

                      Sources confirm that the landing speed of NP-1 was at 132 knots and the sink rate at 4.4 m/s while the arrester hook load was about 37 tonnes. The arrestor hook and other systems were developed by Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC), a division of HAL. “All systems performed as expected during the arrested landing," says an official.

                      ..
                      I hope the Indian Navy goes on to place an order for some twin seat LCA Navy Mk1 fighters to be used as trainers. Can be embarked on INS Vikramaditya and also shore based at INS Hansa, allowing rookie Navy pilots to train and master the skill of landing on an aircraft carrier. Will have a much lower operating cost than twin seat MiG-29KUB or Rafale/Super Hornet which may be chosen next.

                      This will also help to speed up the development and testing of these technologies and techniques for the LCA Navy Mk2, which is currently in development.

                      Comment

                      • BlackArcher
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 4374

                        LCA Navy Mk1 prototype NP-1 achieved the first arrested recovery ever. The first for an indigenous Indian airplane. Joining a select group of nations that have done it with their own naval fighter designs- US, Russia, France and the UK. I don't count China in this since the J-15 is a reverse engineered Su-33.

                        Image credits to their respective owners.








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                        • BlackArcher
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 4374

                           

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                          • BlackArcher
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 4374

                            Another image of LCA Navy NP-1 just after the successful arrested landing trial



                            link

                            Last edited by BlackArcher; 13th September 2019, 21:06.

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                            • djcross
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 5467

                              Maolankar is a great stick who executed a steady, straight down the middle approach.

                              Comment

                              • BlackArcher
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 4374

                                Originally posted by djcross View Post
                                Maolankar is a great stick who executed a steady, straight down the middle approach.
                                Yes indeed he did. Another better quality video that shows the landing. This was repeated the next day by Captain Shivnath Dahiya who is a another Naval LCA test pilot.

                                 

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                                • BlackArcher
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2010
                                  • 4374

                                  SP-26 forward fuselage on the assembly line. That would be the 6th FOC Tejas Mk1. First one (SP-21) should be rolled out by this year end.




                                  LCA SP-13 and SP-16 at the LCA Tejas hangar. Already handed over to the IAF in March 2019. Possibly brought in for inspection by the Defence Minister in a couple of days.



                                  Last edited by BlackArcher; 18th September 2019, 23:11.

                                  Comment

                                  • Spitfire9
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jul 2008
                                    • 2846

                                    Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                                    SP-26 forward fuselage on the assembly line. That would be the 6th FOC Tejas Mk1. First one (SP-21) should be rolled out by this year end.
                                    So completion of the first FOC aircraft will be late. It was going to be end September, wasn't it? I recall this was foreseen due to the usual overdue decision making, something beyond HAL's control. Will HAL be able to catch up so that the last of the batch of 20 will be completed on time, I wonder.

                                    Does anyone know the status of the Mk1A contract?
                                    Last edited by Spitfire9; 19th September 2019, 00:52.
                                    Sum ergo cogito

                                    Comment

                                    • BlackArcher
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2010
                                      • 4374

                                      Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post

                                      So completion of the first FOC aircraft will be late. It was going to be end September, wasn't it? I recall this was foreseen due to the usual overdue decision making, something beyond HAL's control. Will HAL be able to catch up so that the last of the batch of 20 will be completed on time, I wonder.

                                      Does anyone know the status of the Mk1A contract?
                                      Why will completion of first FOC aircraft be late? It was to be delivered between October and December..exact dates weren't given. And seeing fuselages up to SP-28 on the assembly line makes me think that they will deliver the jets by the end of fiscal 2019.

                                      link
                                      Asked when the first weaponised aircraft would be out, the spokesperson said, "Our objective is to deliver it with FOC configuration by year-end -- between October and December."

                                      Comment

                                      • BlackArcher
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2010
                                        • 4374

                                        Tejas to begin flight trials of an indigenous Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) by December 2019 or early 2020.

                                        BENGALURU: India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will be graduating to the next level with the installation of the On-board Oxygen (OBOX) generating system by December or early 2020, said a scientist from Defence Electromedical & Bio-Engineering Laboratory (DEBEL), under the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO).

                                        Almost a year after a successful mid-air fuelling of the Tejas, the LCA Mark-1 (Mk-1) of the Indian Air Force, which enables aircrafts to be airborne for longer durations, DEBEL researchers have developed the onboard oxygen generating system, OBOX, to help keep the pilot fit and alert for an equally long duration with continuous supply of oxygen while on high altitude, long-distance flights.

                                        “As of now, a fighter pilot is airborne with a bottle of oxygen, a cylinder that comes with the aircraft, which has the capacity to last an hour at the most, before coming back to base to get it replenished. However, with the OBOX, oxygen will be available throughout, as long as the engine is running,” he said.

                                        ...

                                        “We have successfully completed lab trials. Now it is to have flight trials. Which is expected by the end of this year or by 2020. After that, this will be fitted on the Tejas,” he said.

                                        The OBOX will flash warning lights and beeps when it detects lesser oxygen than demanded. An onboard electronic control unit on it will monitor the generation and percentage of oxygen.

                                        The 14.5 kg OBOX has been designed for the Tejas and will be later used with small modification on Sukhois and Hawks.
                                        Last edited by BlackArcher; 20th September 2019, 18:11.

                                        Comment

                                        • Austin
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2003
                                          • 6512

                                          What is going on with the Indian Tejas?

                                          https://hushkit.net/2019/09/19/what-...-indian-tejas/
                                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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