Indian Air Force : News and Discussion: 2019: Touch The Sky With Glory

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

14 years 5 months

Posts: 3,538

We don’t count casualties, only target, says Indian Air Force chief on Jaish camp strike

The Indian Air Force does not count casualties in an operation, only the targets, said Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa on Monday, steering clear of a political row over casualties in the IAF’s strike at the Jaish-e-Mohammed’s biggest terror camp in Pakistan’s Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa.

“That statement will be made by the government. Air Force is not in a position to clarify how many people were inside... We don’t count human casualties, we count what targets we have hit or not hit... We can’t count how many people have died. It depends on how many people were there,” the Air Chief said in his first comments since the February 26 attack on a Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) camp.

Original post

Member for

14 years 5 months

Posts: 3,538

Fishbed vs Falcon: Why the ancient MiG-21's F-16 kill is no fluke

Just after 10 am on February 27, 2019, the Pakistan Air Force deployed "a large strike package" of modern F-16 Falcons, Chinese made JF-17s and some vintage Mirage-5 attack jets to avenge India's bombing of terror sanctuaries in Balakot, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa. The PAF's targets were Indian military installations - primarily the brigade headquarters in Bhimber Gali, Jammu, minutes from the Line of Control.

The Indian Air Force scrambled six MiG-21s from its frontline air base in Srinagar to intercept the Pakistani fighters; Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman's fighter was among these six aircraft. The IAF also despatched Sukhoi-30MKIs, Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s from other airbases to provide combat air patrol for the MiG-21 interceptors.

In the ensuing dogfight, the first between India and Pakistan since the 1971 War, Wing Commander Varthaman in his Soviet-era jet managed to acquire a lock on one of the F-16s, shooting it down with a short-range Vympel R-73 air to air missile. Although he couldn't see the outcome of the short 15-minute high-altitude dogfight, Varthaman radioed to base the words "R-73 selected". Seconds later he was himself shot down.

Being the first recorded F-16 kill in history, you'd think it would send ripples across the world of aviation. But curiously, Western defence experts maintained complete silence as the impact of what Varthaman had accomplished took the wind out of the F-16's fanboys.

Member for

14 years 5 months

Posts: 3,538

What Happened At Balakot? Unreleased Satellite Pics May Prove India's Case

Five days after India announced it had crossed the Line of Control to bomb the main training camp of terror group Jaish-e-Mohammed in Balakot in Pakistan, the government has yet to release any images of what was hit. Opposition leaders like Mamata Banerjee have praised the Air Force's venture as heroic but have said that the government must explain, especially now that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman is safely home after spending two days in Pakistan's custody, some information of the Balakot strikes.

Satellite images of the strikes, which are being treated as highly confidential by government officials for now, are likely to reveal multiple impact points made by the Israeli bombs used by the Mirage fighters that crossed up to 20 km over the Line of Control at 3:30 am on February 26 in an operation that lasted approximately 19 minutes.

The target was six buildings in the Jaish terror base.

NDTV has learned that imagery acquired by the government from two different sources will likely establish that the Spice 2000 glide bombs hit five separate structures along a ridge-line to the west of the town of Bisian near Balakot in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

Member for

14 years 5 months

Posts: 3,538

After India Loses Dogfight to Pakistan, Questions Arise About Its ‘Vintage’ Military

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/03/w....co/LmV84HU59B

No surprise there, since Americans are trying to sell 114 jets to India.

The IAF has some old fighters which will be retired soon. So do Pakistan and China. But the bulk of these jets will be replaced by new ones in the coming decade.

See this another one ! The theme seems to be "Poor Injuns, their stuff so old, we need to help them by selling our jets for 15 billion $$"

Why This MiG-21 Vs. F-16 Dogfight Heats Up A $15 Billion Fighter Contest

Lockheed Martin (LMT), Boeing (BA), Saab, Dassault Aviation and Russia's United Aircraft Corp., which makes MiG fighters, are all competing for the fighter contract, which could be worth $15 billion.

India's Foreign Ministry said that Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was flying a Russian-made MiG-21 when he was shot down by a Pakistani jet early Wednesday. Varthaman was released Friday.

"If that's true, then something needs to change unless they enjoy losing pilots," Teal Group aerospace consultant Richard Aboulafia said of the incident. "If it was a MiG, then they tasked an incredibly sensitive, ultra-important mission to a Vietnam War-era plane that has no capabilities and is borderline airworthy."

Member for

8 years 6 months

Posts: 906

I would love to know more about "Super-Sukhoi" project and how it's going.

Should India really master AESA radar production and have industrial support for Uttam. It would be a matter of scaling up the design for MKI's aperture. The achievable power aperture would be quite high as Su-30MKI would offer roughly 22 kW/sqm of cooling capacity for the radar. The high end of the radar using GaN module of 21 Watt peak (The value which will match the cooling capacity) will put range performance considerably over Irbis-E.

My estimate on high end of the Super-30 Radar using GaN modules.

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":3854341}[/ATTACH]

Even module with half power can still bring about considerable performance

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":3854344}[/ATTACH]

This of course assumes that the radar will feature 2700 modules as the potential aperture may provide.

Attachments

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,082


Being the first recorded F-16 kill in history, you'd think it would send ripples across the world of aviation. But curiously, Western defence experts maintained complete silence as the impact of what Varthaman had accomplished took the wind out of the F-16's fanboys.

Pardon to play the devil's advocate, but so far and regardless all dirty propaganda from both sides, the only CONFIRMED loss or kill is a MiG-21 Bison. Neither the Su-30MKK as claimed by the Pakistani nor the F-16 as claimed by the Indians is confirmed.

i can fully understand both sides that in mind of nationalistic fewer the sense to facts get lost, but again, so far none of these claims was confirmed by evidence and pictorial facts nor by any independent third party. :confused:

Member for

5 years 2 months

Posts: 100

Pardon to play the devil's advocate, but so far and regardless all dirty propaganda from both sides, the only CONFIRMED loss or kill is a MiG-21 Bison. Neither the Su-30MKK as claimed by the Pakistani nor the F-16 as claimed by the Indians is confirmed.

i can fully understand both sides that in mind of nationalistic fewer the sense to facts get lost, but again, so far none of these claims was confirmed by evidence and pictorial facts nor by any independent third party. :confused:

Really admire you bothering Deino. Admirable, but you will not convince someone who does not want to be convinced.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,082

Really admire you bothering Deino. Admirable, but you will not convince someone who does not want to be convinced.

I know and sometimes it's my regular daylive as a teacher even if it is just a reminder.

Member for

12 years 1 month

Posts: 4,168

Pardon to play the devil's advocate, but so far and regardless all dirty propaganda from both sides, the only CONFIRMED loss or kill is a MiG-21 Bison. Neither the Su-30MKK as claimed by the Pakistani nor the F-16 as claimed by the Indians is confirmed.

i can fully understand both sides that in mind of nationalistic fewer the sense to facts get lost, but again, so far none of these claims was confirmed by evidence and pictorial facts nor by any independent third party. :confused:

Anyway greek already killed a turkish F-16

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 1,615

Pardon to play the devil's advocate, but so far and regardless all dirty propaganda from both sides, the only CONFIRMED loss or kill is a MiG-21 Bison. Neither the Su-30MKK as claimed by the Pakistani nor the F-16 as claimed by the Indians is confirmed.

i can fully understand both sides that in mind of nationalistic fewer the sense to facts get lost, but again, so far none of these claims was confirmed by evidence and pictorial facts nor by any independent third party. :confused:

There is video out there supposedly showing a JF-17 in pursuit of a MKI. I have seen it in much higher resolution, and the first fighter is most definitely not a MKI. My first impression was it was two JF-17s, flying close to the LOC. I'll try to dig more info as to where exactly that vid was recorded over the coming days and will share.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,082

There is video out there supposedly showing a JF-17 in pursuit of a MKI. I have seen it in much higher resolution, and the first fighter is most definitely not a MKI. My first impression was it was two JF-17s, flying close to the LOC. I'll try to dig more info as to where exactly that vid was recorded over the coming days and will share.

Yes I know and in fact this is a prime example of the lies and propaganda - in this case by some Pakistani fan boys - who are so much blinded by the national ego that they now deliberately ignore these new facts even if a few posts before they were hyping it as proof for an MKI-kill.

This is my post at twitter.
https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1102275309309739014

My point however is not to support blindly one side against the other one; I do not even favour one ... I only hate dumb nationalistic chest-bumping and lies as you can find in so many post all over the regular social media, so that is most difficult to find out what is fact and what is fake. This one is clearly a fake but still does not proof an MKI was shot down nor that none was shot and the same for the F-16.

Member for

12 years 1 month

Posts: 4,168


There is video out there supposedly showing a JF-17 in pursuit of a MKI. I have seen it in much higher resolution, and the first fighter is most definitely not a MKI. My first impression was it was two JF-17s, flying close to the LOC. I'll try to dig more info as to where exactly that vid was recorded over the coming days and will share.

both fighters are F-15 in this video.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 1,615

Yes I know and in fact this is a prime example of the lies and propaganda - in this case by some Pakistani fan boys - who are so much blinded by the national ego that they now deliberately ignore these new facts even if a few posts before they were hyping it as proof for an MKI-kill.

This is my post at twitter.
https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1102275309309739014

My point however is not to support blindly one side against the other one; I do not even favour one ... I only hate dumb nationalistic chest-bumping and lies as you can find in so many post all over the regular social media, so that is most difficult to find out what is fact and what is fake. This one is clearly a fake but still does not proof an MKI was shot down nor that none was shot and the same for the F-16.

Precisely. I think we may start getting better analyses and info over the coming days through articles written by impartial journalists. Over the last few days, I have given up on any media. The name of a poster would most likely indicate the content of a post or article.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 1,615

both fighters are F-15 in this video.

I might give up any hope of recognising fighters in such videos and consider getting my eyes re-tested if they are F-15s, especially the first one. :-)

Member for

5 years 2 months

Posts: 100

What I find actually fascinating is that the IAF chief has said that Ops are still continuing. This is actually the biggest alert IAF and it's Western Command have ever faced and also the PAF, in over 30 years, yet the Air Officer Commanding IAF Western Command has been "retired".

This is either a massive coincidence or reveals much more. Also if such a senior position (arguably the most important in the IAF after the ACM) is in the middle of ops and due to retire, you usually just let him extend for a few days no?

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 1,615

What I find actually fascinating is that the IAF chief has said that Ops are still continuing. This is actually the biggest alert IAF and it's Western Command have ever faced and also the PAF, in over 30 years, yet the Air Officer Commanding IAF Western Command has been "retired".

This is either a massive coincidence or reveals much more. Also if such a senior position (arguably the most important in the IAF after the ACM) is in the middle of ops and due to retire, you usually just let him extend for a few days no?

Mags, I don't think we can read much into that. Yes, it makes sense to have extended his tenure. But staying with the normal routine also conveys the message that all is normal.

On another note, I have just seen the name of Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan appearing in Pak media, who supposedly shot down a MKI. Worth mentioning only because it is circulating amongst news channels, but treat this with a big pinch of salt, and this may be their response to F-16 alleged shooting down.

Member for

5 years 2 months

Posts: 100

Mags, I don't think we can read much into that. Yes, it makes sense to have extended his tenure. But staying with the normal routine also conveys the message that all is normal.

On another note, I have just seen the name of Wing Commander Nauman Ali Khan appearing in Pak media, who supposedly shot down a MKI. Worth mentioning only because it is circulating amongst news channels, but treat this with a big pinch of salt, and this may be their response to F-16 alleged shooting down.

I'd be careful naming anyone, PAF not made any comment yet, also we (at the moment) lack evidence of a SU-30 shoot down. IAF giving press conferences whilst PAF chief busy with visiting the boys, so lets see what DGISPR says at some point