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Could a propeller driven aeroplane still be lethal in aerial combat today ?

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  • topspeed
    Get on uppah !
    • Jan 2009
    • 2592

    Could a propeller driven aeroplane still be lethal in aerial combat today ?

    I mean for the enemy !

    Any ideas ?
    Attached Files
    If it looks good, it will fly good !
    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/
  • St. John
    Rank 4 Registered User
    • Jan 2018
    • 545

    #2
    A helicopter could be lethal against another helicopter.

    Comment

    • Yama
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Feb 2012
      • 607

      #3
      If we only stay in the narrow confines of the subsonic visual range aerial combat, then yes, absolutely, it would be possible to design a turboprop fighter with performance good enough to hang with modern jets. Several attempts at turboprop fighters were made in the '50s, for example XF-84 and Lockheed XFV. Performance they had was equivalent to 1st generation jet fighters like Sabre etc.
      We do know that well-flown subsonic jets like A-4, Gnat, MiG-17, Super Etendard were and are credible challengers for modern fighters in a close-in maneuvering fight. So no reason a turboprop fighter developed with modern technology wouldn't have power loading, acceleration, turning performance etc. required to acquit itself well in WVR regime.

      However, operationally, such a fighter would make no sense at all. Dash speed and acceleration provided by afterburner is way too valuable to give up. Even though modern fighters no longer strive for Mach 2.5 or above speeds, nobody is planning to give up supersonic capability in fighter aircraft. Coincidentally this is why nobody bought Harrier as land-based air superiority fighter.

      Not to mention obvious challenge of making propellors stealthy.

      Comment

      • stealthflanker
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Sep 2015
        • 918

        #4
        The thing is that Propeller fighter may no longer able to dictate the engagement compared to the fast jet. The gap becomes bigger with missile armament.

        The faster jet aircraft have leisure of forcing the fight to the prop aircraft and can disengage/escape as soon as situation get tricky without the prop aircraft able to properly match.

        Comment

        • topspeed
          Get on uppah !
          • Jan 2009
          • 2592

          #5
          Paralay suggested this in another thread 2015.

          Attached Files
          If it looks good, it will fly good !
          -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


          http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

          Comment

          • stealthflanker
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Sep 2015
            • 918

            #6
            Originally posted by topspeed View Post
            Paralay suggested this in another thread 2015.
            Is that even for air-to air combat ?

            looks to me more like those Stavatti COIN's

            Comment

            • topspeed
              Get on uppah !
              • Jan 2009
              • 2592

              #7
              Originally posted by stealthflanker View Post

              Is that even for air-to air combat ?

              looks to me more like those Stavatti COIN's
              Prop plane could be also able to fight in aerial combat...albeit better suited for COIN operations.
              If it looks good, it will fly good !
              -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


              http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

              Comment

              • stealthflanker
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2015
                • 918

                #8
                Originally posted by topspeed View Post

                Prop plane could be also able to fight in aerial combat...albeit better suited for COIN operations.
                See my point above regarding who dictate the engagement.

                Comment

                • Yama
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Feb 2012
                  • 607

                  #9
                  Originally posted by topspeed View Post
                  Paralay suggested this in another thread 2015.
                  That looks similar to British Aerospace SABA from the eighties:
                  Click image for larger version

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                  It was meant as COIN aircraft with special attention given to shooting down helicopters. SABA used unducted fan though. Regular turbofan was also considered.

                  Some Polish Scorpion proposals were also turboprops.

                  Comment

                  • topspeed
                    Get on uppah !
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 2592

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Yama View Post

                    That looks similar to British Aerospace SABA from the eighties:
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	3.jpg
Views:	903
Size:	37.0 KB
ID:	3852451

                    It was meant as COIN aircraft with special attention given to shooting down helicopters. SABA used unducted fan though. Regular turbofan was also considered.

                    Some Polish Scorpion proposals were also turboprops.
                    Pusher props are still very promissing for that kinda plane.
                    If it looks good, it will fly good !
                    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                    Comment

                    • topspeed
                      Get on uppah !
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 2592

                      #11
                      Here is a another Paralay concept !
                      Attached Files
                      If it looks good, it will fly good !
                      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

                      • paralay
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Aug 2005
                        • 1342

                        #12
                        In my opinion, the best option of the "direct aviation support" apparatus would be a high-speed helicopter or convertiplane. The maximum speed of 500 - 700 km / h and vertical takeoff and landing. Then plane a horizontal takeoff and landing, propeller, will be interesting only as a training aircraft.

                        My favorite layout of a fighter from the future for the Second World War

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	paralay_project.jpg
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Size:	144.1 KB
ID:	3852488

                        Comment

                        • topspeed
                          Get on uppah !
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 2592

                          #13
                          Originally posted by paralay View Post
                          In my opinion, the best option of the "direct aviation support" apparatus would be a high-speed helicopter or convertiplane. The maximum speed of 500 - 700 km / h and vertical takeoff and landing. Then plane a horizontal takeoff and landing, propeller, will be interesting only as a training aircraft.

                          My favorite layout of a fighter from the future for the Second World War

                          Click image for larger version  Name:	paralay_project.jpg Views:	0 Size:	144.1 KB ID:	3852488
                          If you ducted those props...could it be like a "cold jet"...but still supersonic ?
                          If it looks good, it will fly good !
                          -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                          http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                          Comment

                          • St. John
                            Rank 4 Registered User
                            • Jan 2018
                            • 545

                            #14
                            Surely the jet-engined aircraft would just stay high and come out of the sun.

                            Comment

                            • topspeed
                              Get on uppah !
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 2592

                              #15
                              Originally posted by St. John View Post
                              Surely the jet-engined aircraft would just stay high and come out of the sun.
                              What if the pilot uses sun glasses ?
                              If it looks good, it will fly good !
                              -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                              http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                              Comment

                              • St. John
                                Rank 4 Registered User
                                • Jan 2018
                                • 545

                                #16
                                Originally posted by topspeed View Post

                                What if the pilot uses sun glasses ?
                                Won't help much when looking directly at the sun.

                                Comment

                                • topspeed
                                  Get on uppah !
                                  • Jan 2009
                                  • 2592

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by St. John View Post
                                  Won't help much when looking directly at the sun.
                                  Many aeroplanes are fitted with a radio. Radio messages can be used to warn about enemies... from a radar operator etc ? For instance..: "Red Leader, Bogies at 2 o'clock high !"
                                  Last edited by topspeed; 23rd February 2019, 13:14.
                                  If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                  -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                  http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment

                                  • Levsha
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 2788

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by St. John View Post
                                    Surely the jet-engined aircraft would just stay high and come out of the sun.
                                    Much aerial warfare happens at night time surely? Most of Israel's airstrikes against Syria are carried out at night I believe.

                                    Comment

                                    • moon_light
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • May 2012
                                      • 958

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Yama View Post

                                      That looks similar to British Aerospace SABA from the eighties:
                                      Click image for larger version

Name:	3.jpg
Views:	903
Size:	37.0 KB
ID:	3852451

                                      It was meant as COIN aircraft with special attention given to shooting down helicopters. SABA used unducted fan though. Regular turbofan was also considered.

                                      Some Polish Scorpion proposals were also turboprops.
                                      She look beautiful

                                      Comment

                                      • St. John
                                        Rank 4 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2018
                                        • 545

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by topspeed View Post

                                        Many aeroplanes are fitted with a radio. Radio messages can be used to warn about enemies... from a radar operator etc ? For instance..: "Red Leader, Bogies at 2 o'clock high !"
                                        Won't help during the intensity of a WVR battle.

                                        Comment

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