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UK's new Tempest fighter !

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  • topspeed
    Get on uppah !
    • Jan 2009
    • 2524

    UK's new Tempest fighter !

    I heard this will have a new Rolls Royce engines on it....possibly like the Sabre engines on Skylon.

    Is this a fact ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WygX_wSxuCs

    BAE; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWATZoGyLq0
    Last edited by topspeed; 30th January 2019, 12:17.
    If it looks good, it will fly good !
    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/
  • St. John
    Rank 4 Registered User
    • Jan 2018
    • 473

    #2
    I doubt it unless they're making a real life version of Firefox... which I wouldn't be against, I just doubt it.

    Comment

    • topspeed
      Get on uppah !
      • Jan 2009
      • 2524

      #3
      But if Skylon works like expected...it can make rolls around the Tempest powered with conventional engines ? Wouldn't this extra operating altitude and speed kinda make the fighter invincible ( using the Sabre engine ) ?
      If it looks good, it will fly good !
      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • St. John
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Jan 2018
        • 473

        #4
        And what would you make the air frame out of that is both stealthy and heat resistant up to Mach 5.5? How big would it need to be to house the substantial fuel requirement as well as the helium cooling loop? You'd be looking at something at least the size of an SR-71 (150,000lbs loaded) and how well would IRST or an EODAS equivalent work at that altitude?

        Comment

        • topspeed
          Get on uppah !
          • Jan 2009
          • 2524

          #5
          High speed can only be applied at very high...scramjets estimate even M14 speeds.

          Maybe this needs to be reconsidered along with Trumps Space Force proposition.
          If it looks good, it will fly good !
          -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


          http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

          Comment

          • Bayar
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Oct 2014
            • 746

            #6
            Click image for larger version

Name:	DiONYe1WAAEMB_I.jpg-large.jpg
Views:	1000
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ID:	3848872

            Comment

            • St. John
              Rank 4 Registered User
              • Jan 2018
              • 473

              #7
              Sadly that looks like a conventional turbojet to me, although maybe adaptive cycle?

              Comment

              • Bayar
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2014
                • 746

                #8
                St. John The conceptual design for the Tempest engine is very similar if not identical to the one being developed by Rolls Royce and Turkey for the TAI TF-X.

                Comment

                • St. John
                  Rank 4 Registered User
                  • Jan 2018
                  • 473

                  #9
                  Quite possibly.

                  Comment

                  • topspeed
                    Get on uppah !
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 2524

                    #10
                    Does it have a reheat ?
                    If it looks good, it will fly good !
                    -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                    http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                    Comment

                    • halloweene
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 4004

                      #11
                      Originally posted by topspeed View Post
                      Does it have a reheat ?
                      Clearly one can see th einjectors for reheat. I wouldn't be so sure aobut "standard turbojet" : there is it seems bypass + those two pipes. Let's wait and see.

                      Comment

                      • Jackonicko
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 2383

                        #12
                        There is no such thing as a 'new Tempest fighter'. Tempest is a collection of Technology Demonstration Programme, and the plastic model unveiled last year just one of a number of concepts. What it eventually looks like will depend on how the eventual requirement is drawn up.

                        Comment

                        • St. John
                          Rank 4 Registered User
                          • Jan 2018
                          • 473

                          #13
                          Could be an EJ2x0 spin-off.

                          Comment

                          • halloweene
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 4004

                            #14
                            Originally posted by St. John View Post
                            Could be an EJ2x0 spin-off.
                            Not really. IP of EJ200 is not Rolls Royce only owned. (oh well, it could be witha ood ararngement)

                            Comment

                            • St. John
                              Rank 4 Registered User
                              • Jan 2018
                              • 473

                              #15
                              Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                              Not really. IP of EJ200 is not Rolls Royce only owned. (oh well, it could be witha ood ararngement)
                              IP of XG-40-1/2 is though, and it's basically the same thing as the EJ2x0 series.
                              http://gasturbinespower.asmedigitalc...icleid=1417471

                              https://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs...load/5867/3012

                              Comment

                              • St. John
                                Rank 4 Registered User
                                • Jan 2018
                                • 473

                                #16
                                https://www.defensenews.com/air/2015...e-fighter-jet/

                                ANKARA, Turkey Rolls-Royce is offering its EJ200 engine to power the first Turkish-made fighter jet, Turkish officials said.

                                Comment

                                • XB-70
                                  Rank 3 Registered User
                                  • May 2018
                                  • 160

                                  #17
                                  I'm going to take the position that RR's IP from their current civilian high bypass engine offerings and the Advance3 core in development is going to be worth a lot more to them than a 1980s design if the UK does in fact go down the Tempest route. RR isn't a company hurting for technical knowhow.

                                  Comment

                                  • Bayar
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Oct 2014
                                    • 746

                                    #18
                                    St. John EUROJET Turbo GmbH, a consortium made up by MTU, Rolls-Royce, Avio Aero and ITP owns the EJ200 engine IP. Thus, if Rolls-Royce wanted to offer or sell EJ200 technology it would need approval from the other consortium partners.

                                    Also the EJ-200 did not win the Turkish tender because Turkey changed the design parameters of the TF-X- requirement from 2 x 20,000 lbf engines to 2 x 29,000 lbf engines.

                                    TR Motor A.S, a Turkish company won the tender for the TF-X engine. See https://www.trmotor.com.tr/ The sub-contractor for TR Motor is Rolls-Royce.

                                    Comment

                                    • St. John
                                      Rank 4 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2018
                                      • 473

                                      #19
                                      They could base it on the XG-40 though as I said, which is RR IP and essentially the same engine. But as you say, they're going with a new design requirement. There was an EJ2x0 proposal stated with 27,000lbf though, part of the ACME II program. This is likely to require so many changes and retest that it couldn't be deemed an EJ200 anymore though in terms of shared IP.

                                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurojet_EJ200#Variants
                                      https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurojet_EJ200#Das_ACME-Programm
                                      Last edited by St. John; 5th February 2019, 10:08.

                                      Comment

                                      • GromOzekA
                                        Rank 3 Registered User
                                        • May 2018
                                        • 10

                                        #20
                                        A Sabre like engines are very complex design that does not suite well for military jet that would be build in hundreds or even thousands. Carrying oxidizer leads to a lot of drawbacks but a few advantages. If suborbital flight is not required, all related systems is just a dead weight. Oxidizer tanks, pipes, precoolers etc. Also, such a jet would be much larger than a proposed model.

                                        I can see only one possible innovation for a Tempest engine: variable cycle. Like YF120 and AL-41F (initial MiG-1.42's version). TWR nozzles also, but it's not an innovation, really.

                                        Comment

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