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2019 F-35 News and Discussion

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  • moon_light
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • May 2012
    • 998

    Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
    The best source of units at any Red Flag is here:
    http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/flag_units.html
    Thanks you very much

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    • panzerfeist1
      Rank 4 Registered User
      • Feb 2018
      • 296

      I got another question on the F-35s EW systems. https://breakingdefense.com/2016/07/...ronic-warfare/ "
      While F-35 is capable of stand-off jamming for other aircraft providing 10 times the effective radiated power of any legacy fighter F-35s can also operate in closer proximity to the threat (stand-in) to provide jamming power many multiples that of any legacy fighter.

      I am very sure the AN/ALR-94 is an old system to be labeled as legacy in comparison to the ASQ-239. Lets just say for the sake of argument that both the F-22 and F-35 have had an RCS of .0001m2. But because the radiated power of the F-35 has 10 times the power to further suppress the F-22s radar than the F-22's EW system does to the F-35s radar would this put the F-35 at a .00001m2 RCS? If you got 10 times the jamming power would this cause a 1/10th reduction in RCS or there is another way to calculate jamming power to RCS reduction?
      I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

      Comment

      • SpudmanWP
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2009
        • 5234

        Despite what members of the Gripen/Rafale fanboi club tell you, EW does not reduce the RCS of the fighter.

        A jammer only works in proportion to its ability to detect and mimic the adversary's radar signal.

        For instance, the radar of an F-4 should be relatively easy to jam with an 80's 4th gen jammer but that same jammer would have extreme difficulty even identifying a modern AESA signal let alone the LPI versions found on the F-22/35.
        "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

        Comment

        • moon_light
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • May 2012
          • 998

          A jammer can't reduce RCS of fighter, but SNR is proportional to RCS, so having 1/100 RCS is the same as having a jammer 100 times more powerful

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          • XB-70
            Rank 3 Registered User
            • May 2018
            • 262

            ...
            but SNR is proportional to RCS..
            Related...and actually inversely so for jamming, and so the return signal is masked similarly to how it would have been with a lower RCS asset. The difference is that, by raising the noise level up instead of dragging the echo signal down, you eliminate the 'unaware that anyone is there' factor. So it is similar...not identical!
            Last edited by XB-70; 19th February 2019, 11:13.

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            • halloweene
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2012
              • 4231

              Despite what members of the Gripen/Rafale fanboi club tell you, EW does not reduce the RCS of the fighter.

              A jammer only works in proportion to its ability to detect and mimic the adversary's radar signal.

              For instance, the radar of an F-4 should be relatively easy to jam with an 80's 4th gen jammer but that same jammer would have extreme difficulty even identifying a modern AESA signal let alone the LPI versions found on the F-22/35.
              pure blah blah without any substance. Arguement if you want to be understood. Of course it soesnt change the physics of signal teturn. However in=t can inject in data.
              SPectra have three main goals : detect incomin wave (planeform will guide them to hotspots), than injec directionnally low level and extremely short signals. The idea is not to stay undetected, but to break kill chain.
              Last edited by halloweene; 19th February 2019, 13:17.

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              • St. John
                Rank 4 Registered User
                • Jan 2018
                • 568

                Originally posted by halloweene View Post

                pure blah blah without any substance. Arguement if you want to be understood. Of course it soesnt change the physics of signal teturn. However in=t can inject in data.
                SPectra have three main goals : detect incomin wave (planeform will guide them to hotspots), than injec directionnally low level and extremely short signals. The idea is not to stay undetected, but to break kill chain.
                Hang on, hang on. I thought the active cancellation thing was supposed to make you undetected but now you're just talking about breaking the kill chain, which is what any jamming system does.

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                • panzerfeist1
                  Rank 4 Registered User
                  • Feb 2018
                  • 296

                  Thank you guys for the responses.
                  I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                  Comment

                  • moon_light
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • May 2012
                    • 998

                    Originally posted by XB-70 View Post
                    Related...and actually inversely so for jamming, and so the return signal is masked similarly to how it would have been with a lower RCS asset. The difference is that, by raising the noise level up instead of dragging the echo signal down, you eliminate the 'unaware that anyone is there' factor. So it is similar...not identical!
                    You are correct, i should have said the ratio is the same in both case.

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                      Momentum Builds For U.S. Navy To Declare The F-35C Combat-Ready


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                      • halloweene
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 4231

                        In the meanwhile USAF is going to order 80 F-15X (Bloomberg)

                        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ong-with-f-35s
                        Last edited by halloweene; 20th February 2019, 14:51.

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                        • TomcatViP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 5959

                          8 in 2020 and up to 80 in the next 5 years.
                          I am not sure this is a good news for the Eurocanards, invariably lowering the cost and increasing the attractiveness of their major competitor.

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                          • halloweene
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 4231

                            Ah forgot. Trump signed a bill to prevent sales of F-35 to Turkey.

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                            • Guest's Avatar
                              Guest

                              Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                              In the meanwhile USAF is going to order 80 F-15X (Bloomberg)

                              https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ong-with-f-35s
                              Don't count on the USAF "ever" getting the F-15X.....

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                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Guest

                                Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                                Ah forgot. Trump signed a bill to prevent sales of F-35 to Turkey.
                                It's called "politics" and in the end Turkey will get the F-35. (and the Patriot)

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                                • Guest's Avatar
                                  Guest

                                  Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                  8 in 2020 and up to 80 in the next 5 years.
                                  I am not sure this is a good news for the Eurocanards, invariably lowering the cost and increasing the attractiveness of their major competitor.
                                  Never going to happen....

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                                  • halloweene
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2012
                                    • 4231

                                    It is probably going to happen because in several area the F-15 is still a beast and can, for example, lift very large ammos (such as hypersonic missiles). It ca also be much faster for a "push". So why not?

                                    Comment

                                    • SpudmanWP
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2009
                                      • 5234

                                      "Why not" because it's more expensive and you don't buy a fighter and then come up with a mission, you define the mission and then buy the aircraft.

                                      The "mission" is to replace CONUS ANG F-15Cs that will never need to haul a hypersonic missile, never carry more than 4 AMRAAMs, never go above mach 1.2 in combat, etc.

                                      Stop trying to excuse what is so obviously a Corporate Welfare buy that the USAF has repeatedly said that they do not have a mission for and do not want.
                                      "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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                                      • St. John
                                        Rank 4 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2018
                                        • 568

                                        The Boeing lobby is strong.

                                        Comment

                                        • F/A-XX
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Apr 2011
                                          • 205

                                          If the USAF has to get some F-15Xs they'd be better off with two-seaters to supplement the F-15E fleet. The F-35A is a great aircraft but it doesn't have quite the same legs. Had they the money I imagine the USAF would want a new design to replace the F-15E and it would probably be the size of the F-111 if not slightly larger.

                                          If the DoD was serious about getting some new thoroughbred air-superiority fighters to replace aging F-15s then we should cough up the cash and pay to restart production of an updated F-22. Yet I don't think it is being taken that seriously. This F-15X order is just about keeping Boeing's military division busy and the production line running. It's quite unfortunate some short-sighted individuals prevented the same from being done with the the F-22, which the USAF actually wanted more of.
                                          Last edited by F/A-XX; 25th February 2019, 02:11.

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