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Japan to order 100 more F-35 fighters from US (42 F-35A + 100 F-35A/B)

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  • djcross
    Rank 5 Registered User

    #21
    I would expect Izumo to conduct 4 launch events in a 12 hour period. F-35s are designed to operate in a 4-ship flight but you also need to generate a spare jet for each event in case a jet breaks. That means there are 5 jets prepared for each event. F-35 should be capable of generating at least two sorties in a 12 hour period, which is easily done with 10 jets on the flight deck.

    But I expect a third of F-35s to be down for maintenance. Which means another 3 jets are required, for a total of 13 jets on Izumo.

    Multiply the 13 by 3, in the event that 2 Izumo class ships need sortie at the same time, add attrition spares and training and you get 40 F-35s.
    Last edited by djcross; 28th November 2018, 11:33.

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    • Sintra
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #22
      I would point out that a) its a Nikkei story citing "unnammed sources", b) theres no FMS letter to the Congress about a Japanese F-35A/B/C/D/J/Y follow on order and c) the number of sales to foreign countries outside of the JSF partners without a prior FMS letter till now is zero.
      While i have no doubts that Daves follow on orders by the JASDF are extremely likely and are being discussed right now, theres no firm contract yet.
      sigpic

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      • Vnomad
        Rank 5 Registered User

        #23
        Originally posted by Sintra
        I would point out that a) its a Nikkei story citing "unnammed sources", b) theres no FMS letter to the Congress about a Japanese F-35A/B/C/D/J/Y follow on order and c) the number of sales to foreign countries outside of the JSF partners without a prior FMS letter till now is zero.
        While i have no doubts that Daves follow on orders by the JASDF are extremely likely and are being discussed right now, theres no firm contract yet.
        Far too early to expect an FMS request for the whole lot - the deliveries from their existing order only began two years ago, and there will probably be a follow-on order for 20-25 F-35As first.

        Its difficult to be certain about the future and plans do after all change (case-in-point: UK/Italy), but a report by the Nikkei can generally be taken to be credible, and its a interesting indication of the JASDF/MoD's thinking about the future.

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        • TomcatViP
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #24
          bring_it_on :
          Japan will likely need to build up capacity given where China is likely to be in the 2030+ time-frame so there will be plenty of demand for F-3's in the 2030+ time-frame as long as they can get an F-3 at a reasonable cost to develop.
          I pretty much think so. This is very encouraging for the F-3 as it leaves immediate operational needs out of the loop what gives more time for R&D (less cost) and open opportunities for a partnership with resetting the schedule to make it compatible with other nations (except South Korea, sadly).
          We can now see realistic similarities b/w the Japan project and German needs or even the situation in the UK (understanding that Germany will order F-35s to replace their Tornadoes). Same delay, same mission etc...
          So indeed, this is quite a good news for the F-3: devoid of any urgency (like the awkward re-launching of the F-22), this project will have plenty of space to mature on an efficient way.


          Last but not least, I see more the upgraded meteor fielded for their upgraded F-15J.
          Last edited by TomcatViP; 28th November 2018, 16:01.

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          • Vans
            Rank 5 Registered User

            #25
            Izumo in Ski Jump configuration. also why is the F-35 called Dave?

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            • Sintra
              Rank 5 Registered User

              #26
              Far too early to expect an FMS request for the whole lot - the deliveries from their existing order only began two years ago, and there will probably be a follow-on order for 20-25 F-35As first.

              Its difficult to be certain about the future and plans do after all change (case-in-point: UK/Italy), but a report by the Nikkei can generally be taken to be credible, and its a interesting indication of the JASDF/MoD's thinking about the future.
              Vnomad, pretty much that, its a safe bet that the JASDF will keep on buying more F-35As while upgrading part of its Eagle fleet.
              sigpic

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              • Sintra
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #27
                why is the F-35 called Dave?
                Vans, old story, some silly bunny at PPRUNE invented it.
                When the name "Lightning II" was made public some chap at PPRUNE made a comment about the name being so uninspired that they might just call it "Dave". And its a much better nickname than what the competition, namely the Boeing X-32, got. "Monica"...

                Cheers
                Last edited by Sintra; 28th November 2018, 17:41.
                sigpic

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                • ananda
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #28
                  https://www.defensenews.com/digital-...d-fighter-jet/

                  For those who doubt capabilities and capacity of Japan to develop their own tech for next gen Fighters..

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                  • QuantumFX
                    What?

                    #29


                    Originally posted by ananda
                    Post #28

                    https://www.defensenews.com/digital-...d-fighter-jet/

                    For those who doubt capabilities and capacity of Japan to develop their own tech for next gen Fighters..
                    To add to that, here are some specs from succesful IHI XF9-1 turbofan ground tests - PDF (In Japanese). Specs appear to be:

                    Dry thrust ≥ 11,000 kgf (>107 kN)
                    With afterburner ≥ 15,000 kgf (>147 kN)
                    Length ~ 4.8 m
                    Diameter ~1 m

                    That dry-thrust in particular is quite impressive. F119 dry thrust is at least 98 kN but the final product may have exceeded that by 5% to 15%.


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                    • JSR
                      JSR
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      #30
                      based on these numbers from the above link .there is nothing they can do about it consider the limited space/skills with inefficient spending. you cannot spend 10 years and nothing to show for unless those people are involved in other aerospace projects.

                      This includes $194.6 million for research into fighter mission system integration studies and manned-unmanned aircraft teaming technology, and is on top of the $1.7 billion Japan has invested in fighter research since 2009. That first figure is also more than 10 times the amount spent on R&D for Japans Mitsubishi F-2 fighter, according to Uchimura



                      Its all about consumer.

                      https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Bus...spending-binge


                      Aerospace development as complex as Steath fighter all the associated weopon systems. need huge area for development and another huge area for testing. Japan simply don't have the land for this thing.
                      Santa Susana: A Compr
                      http://articles.latimes.com/1995-01-..._1_skunk-works
                      Cleaning Up a Bad Mess : Lockheed and Burbank Grapple With Costly Cleanup at Skunk Works
                      ehensive Cleanup

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                      • Vans
                        Rank 5 Registered User

                        #31
                        Sintra: Thanks for the explanation. I thought it was because of the UK PM at the time
                        ANANDA: good info. sounds ike something that would be used by a future twin engined fighter. or a light weight single engined gripen sized fighter.

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                        • Scooter
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #32
                          Sorry, I hate to break it to some but the proposed F-3 that was suppose to be developed from the X-2 (formerly ATD-X) is in fact dead. That said, Japan will continue to develop future technologies. Which, it hopes can be used as leverage to join with a partner or partners on "6th Generation Fighter".


                          The current plan is to replace all of it's F-4's and at very least half of it's F-15's with New F-35A's and F-35B's. Yet, considering the New 6th Generation Fighter is so far off. (20+ years) I wouldn't be surprised if all of the F-15's are replaced as time goes on. Only real hope is this new 6th Generation Fighter will come soon enough to replace the F-2's???



                          F-35 Lightning II

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                          • FalconDude
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            #33
                            The leaked information about the 100 F-35s to Japan (interest) is another way of pressuring Turkey not to go ahead with the purchase of the S-400! 100 is exactly the number of planes Turkey has ordered.

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                            • TomcatViP
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              #34
                              nice observation.

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                              • bring_it_on
                                2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                                #35
                                Originally posted by Sintra
                                I would point out that a) its a Nikkei story citing "unnammed sources", b) theres no FMS letter to the Congress about a Japanese F-35A/B/C/D/J/Y follow on order and c) the number of sales to foreign countries outside of the JSF partners without a prior FMS letter till now is zero.
                                While i have no doubts that Daves follow on orders by the JASDF are extremely likely and are being discussed right now, theres no firm contract yet.


                                The plan was confirmed by former defence minister Itsunori Onodera, who said during a 5 December meeting of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) in Tokyo, We concluded that it is preferable to replace 99 F-15 fighters [pre-MSIP], which cannot be modernised, with F35s. Onodera currently chairs the task force of the LDP and its coalition partner Komeito, which is in charge of revising the NDPG. The guidelines are set to be reviewed by the end of 2018 for the first time in five years.

                                The government presented the draft to the ruling coalitions task force on 5 December.
                                https://www.janes.com/article/85020/...f-35b-fighters

                                There is still going to be some work required before this turns into an FMS notification but one can safely expect that in the coming year or so should things move as planned. First it has to go through Japan's budget process and be formally baked into their investment strategies.
                                Last edited by bring_it_on; 6th December 2018, 11:52.
                                Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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                                • Sintra
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #36
                                  Thats pretty much official.
                                  Thanks
                                  sigpic

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                                  • bring_it_on
                                    2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                                    #37
                                    More:

                                    TOKYO Japan is expected to announce new defense guidelines next week that would transform its newest warship into an aircraft carrier and pave the way for a major purchase of as many as 147 F-35s, the parliamentary vice minister of defense for Japans ruling party said Wednesday.

                                    Converting Japans newest warship, the JS Izumo helicopter destroyer, into an aircraft carrier that would carry the advanced F-35B vertical takeoff Joint Strike Fighter would mark a major shift in the post-war makeup of Japans Maritime Self Defense Forces.

                                    The Liberal Democratic Party and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe are expected to release defense guidelines next week that will take that more assertive approach, said Keitaro Ohno, LDPs parliamentary vice minister for defense.

                                    Transforming the Izumo to be able to support the F-35 wont cost much, as the new and modern warship, which was commissioned in 2015, already has the basics to support the vertical takeoff fighters, Ohno said.

                                    The biggest price tag will be a planned buy of up to 147 F-35s to both outfit the Izumo and replace Japans aging fleet of F-4 and F-15 fighters.

                                    Ohno said that about 40 of the aircraft would be F-35Bs for the Izumo, and 107 would be F-35As to replace the F-4s and F-15s.

                                    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...20on%20Defense
                                    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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