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  • WACHENR0DER
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2003
    • 777

    Networking, data linking, etc on Russian combat aircraft

    I was wondering what the status of implementing datalinking/networking for netcentric warfare, similar to that used on the Gripen, Tornado F.3 upgrades, etc.

    I heard the MiG-31 had one for interception, but that's about all I know.
  • Arthur
    a plane pour moi
    • Jan 2000
    • 9057

    #2
    The Tu-128M had one in the form of the R-846 radio system, that was the reason it was retained in service until the MiG-31B was fully in service. The earliest MiG-31s didn't yet have a datalink.

    You could spot an R-846-equipped Fiddler because of the horizontal tip of the vertical fin, rather than the triangular tip on vanilla-Fiddlers.
    Regards,

    Arthur
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
    Bertrand Russell

    Comment

    • Kovy
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Apr 2004
      • 1457

      #3
      According to the Su-27 SK manual, The networking is possible among a group of 4 su-27SK.

      Don't know if an A-50 is required though.
      The Rafale international forum :
      http://rafale.freeforums.org/

      Rafale news blog :
      http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • Pit
        Pit
        Arrogant SOB
        • May 2004
        • 707

        #4
        Kovy where in this planet did you find a Su-27SK manual!?!?!?!?!

        I know its called Spektr, but a Su-27SK manual is!!...

        Arthur, I'm very very sure that the very first MiG-31 introduced Intra-flight datalink systems, the ones of the MiG-31B is improved because:
        1) It has nearly 4 times the range in air-to-ground networking
        2) They can share info not only between a/cs but also to the ground (MiG-31 "a" detects a target and pass it to the other buddyies in the net and to the Rubezh-M station in the ground too, in the Rubezh-M station they can send the info to other a/cs derived in the MiG-31's datalink info

        MiG-31B could be really used as a sort of "AEW picket"...

        Again Kovy, where did you found a Su-27SK manual!?!?!

        Comment

        • Flanker_man
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2000
          • 3665

          #5
          Originally posted by Pit
          Kovy where in this planet did you find a Su-27SK manual!?!?!?!?!

          I know its called Spektr, but a Su-27SK manual is!!...

          Arthur, I'm very very sure that the very first MiG-31 introduced Intra-flight datalink systems, the ones of the MiG-31B is improved because:
          1) It has nearly 4 times the range in air-to-ground networking
          2) They can share info not only between a/cs but also to the ground (MiG-31 "a" detects a target and pass it to the other buddyies in the net and to the Rubezh-M station in the ground too, in the Rubezh-M station they can send the info to other a/cs derived in the MiG-31's datalink info

          MiG-31B could be really used as a sort of "AEW picket"...

          Again Kovy, where did you found a Su-27SK manual!?!?!
          I picked up a 40-page sales brochure on the Su-27SK Upgraded at Farnborough - this may be the 'manual' that Kovy refers to ??

          Under the heading "The Communications Suite" it says....

          "The comms suite is designed to ensure:-
          * other stuff about radios etc.......
          plus......
          *tactical data exchange among aircraft in flight via secure data link.
          *aircraft operations in a group. Group operations ensure the rational use of combat capabilities of up to 16 Su-27SK Upgraded fighters, with the group leader performing automated data collection from his wingmen, target distribution and automated target designation, which ensures covert attack capability"

          That do you ??

          Ken
          Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
          Flankers (& others) website at :-
          http://flankers.co.uk/

          Comment

          • SwingKid
            Registered User
            • Sep 2004
            • 104

            #6
            Kovy speaks of the real thing. Get it while it lasts:

            ftp://ftp.virtualflight.ru/documentation

            Freshly declassified.

            -SK

            Comment

            • aerospacetech
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 1459

              #7
              Excellent news SK!!

              Downloading as I post
              Available now: my book Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects from Blue Envoy Press

              Comment

              • aerospacetech
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2000
                • 1459

                #8
                BTW SK if I post the MiG-23 HUD diagrams from "Hot Skies Over Afghanistan" could you try to translate the Russian captions? My scan isn't big enough for automatic translation to work...
                Available now: my book Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects from Blue Envoy Press

                Comment

                • SwingKid
                  Registered User
                  • Sep 2004
                  • 104

                  #9
                  Ok, I can try to translate a small text... I think I have seen these photos before though and had trouble to perfectly understand the caption, but maybe my Russian has improved since then. Link me to the correct topic?

                  -SK

                  Comment

                  • aerospacetech
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 1459

                    #10
                    OK- from the Su-27SK Manual- an interesting display. It says its "marshroot" mode- isn't that a navigation system? It looks a bit like a tactical display... who can translate for me?
                    Last edited by aerospacetech; 7th December 2006, 07:21.
                    Available now: my book Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects from Blue Envoy Press

                    Comment

                    • SwingKid
                      Registered User
                      • Sep 2004
                      • 104

                      #11
                      Hmm, that doesn't look like "Hot Skies"... Rather page 90 from a certain 260-page book... Why do I get the feeling there's going to be more where that came from.

                      1 - Permitted range according to remaining fuel
                      2 - Displacement from the assigned course
                      3 - Waypoint with ID number
                      4 - Assigned course line (?)
                      5 - Airport with ID number
                      6 - Radio beacon with ID number
                      7 - Scale: 1 cm on screen = 50 km
                      8 - friendly wingmen with velocity vector, altitude line, and ID number*
                      9 - another group of friendly aircraft with velocity vector, ID number (2), quantity of aircraft in the group (4)
                      * - in the "Narciss-M" system, friendly aircraft are indicated with a circle at the bottom of the symbol, and the true airspeed of each is shown in a rectangle in the lower right corner of the display screen.

                      -SK

                      Comment

                      • Pit
                        Pit
                        Arrogant SOB
                        • May 2004
                        • 707

                        #12
                        OOhhh boys!!

                        You will make me cry of of happiness!!!!
                        This manual is GREAT!!!

                        And the Spektr system is...AWESOME!!!!

                        God Bless Russian guys and their declassified manuals!!!

                        Hell...this is something I have been searching for years!!!!!

                        Comment

                        • SwingKid
                          Registered User
                          • Sep 2004
                          • 104

                          #13
                          The best things in life are free.

                          If you like, you can express thanks to our friends in Moscow:

                          http://forum.lockon.ru/viewtopic.php?t=2086

                          ...or, buy their flight sim!

                          -SK

                          Comment

                          • crobato
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 7172

                            #14
                            The download keeps timing out for me
                            pb::

                            Comment

                            • SwingKid
                              Registered User
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 104

                              #15
                              Originally posted by crobato
                              The download keeps timing out for me
                              Well, you get what you pay for.

                              temporary mirror:
                              (EDIT 2006/09/18: Sorry, hosting expired)

                              -SK
                              Last edited by SwingKid; 18th September 2006, 16:29.

                              Comment

                              • griffin_pak
                                Senior Member
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 162

                                #16
                                hey hey; a fellow u of ter!! undergrad? or faculty member??

                                Comment

                                • SwingKid
                                  Registered User
                                  • Sep 2004
                                  • 104

                                  #17
                                  Bitterest grad student on campus.

                                  -SK

                                  Comment

                                  • Arthur
                                    a plane pour moi
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 9057

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Pit
                                    Arthur, I'm very very sure that the very first MiG-31 introduced Intra-flight datalink systems, the ones of the MiG-31B is improved because:
                                    1) It has nearly 4 times the range in air-to-ground networking
                                    2) They can share info not only between a/cs but also to the ground (MiG-31 "a" detects a target and pass it to the other buddyies in the net and to the Rubezh-M station in the ground too, in the Rubezh-M station they can send the info to other a/cs derived in the MiG-31's datalink info
                                    You are probably right Pit, but the Tu-128M served along with MiG-31 regiments until 1990 exactly because of their datalink capability. I don't know the details, but i think the R-846 acted as a sort of 'server' for the datalink of the early MiG-31s.
                                    Regards,

                                    Arthur
                                    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
                                    Bertrand Russell

                                    Comment

                                    • aerospacetech
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 1459

                                      #19
                                      Page 209 of Su-27SK Manual shows you the group action display seen bt one of the wingmen....

                                      Original Russian
                                      Рис.41. Информация на ИПВ самолета ведомого.
                                      1. Цель с линией высоты, вектором скорости, переданная от ведущего звена (неотождествленная).
                                      2. Номер цели.
                                      З. Цель с линией высоты, вектором скорости (отождествленная)
                                      4. Номер отождествленной цели.
                                      5. Цель, сопровождаемая РЛС.
                                      б. Номер цели.
                                      7. Номер самолета ведущего звена, которому передана цель.
                                      8. Свой самолет о номером.
                                      9. Ведущий звена о номером.
                                      10. Ведомые звена с номерами.
                                      11. Ряд ранжировки целей по степени опасности.
                                      12. Цель, назначенная на атаку.
                                      13. Масштаб
                                      14. Дальность полета по запасу топлива.
                                      Babelfish translation

                                      Fig. 41. Information on IPV (CRT display) of the wingman/slave aircraft.
                                      1. Target/purpose with the line of height, the velocity vector, transmitted from the leading component/link (not identified).
                                      2. number of target/purpose.
                                      3. Target/purpose with the line of height, the velocity vector (identified)
                                      4. Number of the identified target/purpose.
                                      5. Target/purpose, accompanied BY RLS.
                                      6. Number of target/purpose.
                                      7. The number of the lead aircraft link, to which is transmitted the target/purpose.
                                      8. Friendly aircraft about by number.
                                      9. Leader of link about by number.
                                      10. slaves (wingmen) of link with the numbers.
                                      11. Number of the ranking of targets/purposes according to the degree of danger.
                                      12. Target/purpose, assigned to the attack.
                                      13. Scale
                                      14. Flying range on the fuel reserve.
                                      Last edited by aerospacetech; 7th December 2006, 07:21.
                                      Available now: my book Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects from Blue Envoy Press

                                      Comment

                                      • aerospacetech
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 1459

                                        #20
                                        This display on Page 190 shows friendlies at the bottom, a target with velocity vector(labelled 3), the host aircraft's radar scanning zone indicated by the curved line, and the directional offset from the assigned course (labelled 2 at top of display)
                                        Last edited by aerospacetech; 7th December 2006, 07:21.
                                        Available now: my book Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects from Blue Envoy Press

                                        Comment

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