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By: - 16th August 2004 at 15:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
and here are the side views of the Super Mirage !!!
By: - 16th August 2004 at 15:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
... and some "What-if" serial versions !!!
By: - 16th August 2004 at 16:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
mirage 4000 was an evolution of super mirage.
Dassault had always this way of doing, there're no really new fighter at dassault but rather slow evolutions.
mirage 4000 was already built before the super mirage was droped.
I don't know what happened to the prototype.
By: - 16th August 2004 at 16:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Let's wait the Fana n°418 :p
By: - 16th August 2004 at 17:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
mirage 4000 was an evolution of super mirage.
Dassault had always this way of doing, there're no really new fighter at dassault but rather slow evolutions.
That's a very interesting point - for my opinion - no other manufactor of aircraft makes this like Dassault !
Starting with the Mirage III and it's bigger cousin the Mirage IV tnhere waere plans for a Mirage III replacement developed and largely based on the M.III-airframe first to the F-series = F-1, F-2, F-3) with fixed wings and the G-series with VG-wings (G-2, G-4, G-8).
The Super Mirage = ACF was then an enlarged Mirage G-8 with a fixed wing wich led after it's cancelation to the Super Mirage-Delta = Mirage 4000 and it's smaller precedessor - the Mirage 2000 !!!
Just fine !
mirage 4000 was already built before the super mirage was droped.
:confused: Are You sure .... I think that cold not be !!! The Mirage Super Mirage = ACF-programe was canceled late in 1975 and the Mirage 4000 was built during 1978 - 1979 !!!
Deino :)
By: - 16th August 2004 at 18:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
before the ACF was droped, dassault has started the construction of the prototype of the super mirage 4000.
You can see that in the first part of the article.
At this time the plane was called "mirage 4000" prior to the "Super mirage 4000" known todays.
i'll look at the article again but i'm pretty sure i'm not wrong.
By: - 16th August 2004 at 23:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I don't know what happened to the prototype.[/QUOTE]
the prototype is displayed at "le bourget" musee nationale d'aviation, i have seen it, very nice. ;)
Camaro.
By: - 17th August 2004 at 14:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
okay i checked my book.
I was not correct on one thing, it was not the prototype of the mirage 4000 that was built before ACF cancelation but a complete Mock-up of this plane!
My bad.
However this means the plane was designed before the cancelation of the ACF, wich is logical if you follow this dassault-only slow evolutions way of production.
By: - 17th August 2004 at 17:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That's a very interesting point - for my opinion - no other manufactor of aircraft makes this like Dassault !Starting with the Mirage III....
Well, if you want to start from the beginning...
The MirageIII emerged from the MD.550 Mystère-Delta. Which was very roughly based on the Super Mystere, itself an evolved MD.452 Mystère, which originally was little more then a swept-winged MD.450 Ouragan...
But there are several designers/manufacturers who have a clear evolution in their designs. If you look at all the development prototypes from the MiG-15 to the MiG-21, you can easily see the evolution there. The same can be said if you look at Convair's deltas: from the XF-92 to the F-102 (initially with the fat fuselage), the F-106, then the B-58...
Then you have the F-4 Phantom which is logically developed from the F3H Demon, or Grumman's F-9F Panther which got swept wings and became the F9F Cougar, and was then to evolve as the F9F-9 which was later called F11F Tiger.
You have to remember of course that up until the 1960s, things were happening awfully fast in the aviation industry. Better engines, better materials, new discoveries in aerodynamics and other fields. This made it an almost round-the-clock job for the designers to keep up with the latest developments, so in stead of starting from scratch each and every time, they refined existing designs to such lengths that after some time, the original design was only hard to recognise in the 'new' model.
By: - 17th August 2004 at 19:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Even the F-15 can be seen as evolved from the F-4, though admittedly the end result is quite different. The initial fixed wing configuration studied was practically an F-4 clone, which evolved to the end form via a tailed delta (MiG-21 influence) with MiG-25-style intakes.
By: - 19th August 2004 at 03:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey Deino,
Did those books you picked up have any detailed three view pics of the ACF? That was always one of my favorite Dassault designs as well.
By: - 19th August 2004 at 03:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Did Dassault want to power mirages with the Orenda Iroquois engine at one point?
By: - 19th August 2004 at 03:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great stuff once again, Deino!
That's a very interesting point - for my opinion - no other manufactor of aircraft makes this like Dassault
Atlas :D
Well, they would have if they went ahead and built the Cava :p
But obviously, they were influenced by their Mirages.
By: - 19th August 2004 at 08:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hey Deino,
Did those books you picked up have any detailed three view pics of the ACF? That was always one of my favorite Dassault designs as well.
Mine too .... and I deeply regret that there is no model kit of this plane :( ... regarding the plans ... Sorry not ... they do have a what-if-3-side-drawing of the proposed prototype ... but just in the quality like the other pics I posted !
The best 3-side-drawing I have are these ... an older twin seater and the final single seater version !
Deino :D
By: - 19th August 2004 at 10:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Strange nose, wonderful wings
By: - 19th August 2004 at 21:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Super Mirage 4000, photo thanks to Avions Marcel Dassault-Breguet Aviation.
By: - 23rd August 2004 at 04:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks!
That first three view looks like an interim design while it evolved from the G-8 to the ACF.
By: - 5th September 2004 at 15:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Let's wait the Fana n°418 :p
Has anyone seen it yet ... and wold be so kind to post ?????
Here in Germany it's quite difficult to find it :mad:
Thanks, Deino :)
By: - 5th September 2004 at 23:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
i'll look at it this week.
By: - 6th September 2004 at 12:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Got it.
Lots of new pictures about the mirage 4000 but not much infos about its performance.
Posts: 4,082
By: Deino - 16th August 2004 at 15:50
Hi ... I’m back from my three-week family-holiday-trip in France ... and with the help of “frankvw” I found two volumes of “Le Fana de l’Aviation” (No. 416 + 417) regarding the long way of the French ACF project to the final Mirage 4000.
The most interesting NEW’s for me apart from some very fine drawings was a picture of the partly-completed prototype in December 1975 at the moment of the cancellation of the ACF “Super Mirage” project.
I didn’t know that the project was so far competed :eek: when it was abandoned :mad: .... and now I want to ask !!!
1. Why was the prototype not completed and flown as a technology demonstrator like the later Mirage 4000 ??
2. What happened to it later ??? ... was it scraped and why ??
3. Does anyone have some more pictures of the prototype ??
4. Why was then – only about three years later in spring 1979 – a fighter in the same class of the F-15 developed and test-flown ... ??
5. ... and how does France reached this achievement – to develop two fighters in this class in a three years time frame ???
So far enough until now .... nice to be back again, and best regards,
Deino :)