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  • Srbin
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 2137

    Kh-65

    I am not sure how correct this is but

    From GlobalSecurity.org
    The Kh-65 missile is a tactical modification of the strategic Kh-55. According to available information, (on data sheets at the 1992 Moscow Air Show), its range was to be 500-600 km. The reduced ranges is a product of compliance with the SALT-2 treaty which imposed The reason for shortening its range was that, according to terms of the SALT-2 Treaty, any aircraft carrying missiles with a range longer than 600 km will be regarded as a strategic one and the number of such aircraft is strictly limited. A full-sized versio of the Kh-65SE was displayed for the first time in 1993 (February in Abu Dabi, then September 1993 in Zhukovskiy and Nizhniy Novgorod). The missiles shown at the exhibitions did not differ from the earlier versions except for their range, quoted as 250 km when launched from low altitude and 280 km when launched from high altitude. The Kh-65 was intended for use against large targets with a larger than 300 m2 effective reflecting surface area, particularly warships, under conditions of strong electronic interference. It approaches the target guided by an inertial navigation system while flying at a low altitude. Having reached the region where the target is located, it rises to a higher altitude and its active-radar target seeking system turns on.
    The Missile is also said to be integrated with the Su-35 and Su-37.

    Anyone have any info on this missile?
    Any comments?
  • Vympel
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 2504

    #2
    It's conflating two different missiles:

    Kh-SD (Kh-65?): Information about the Kh-SD partly tallies with the data for the Kh-65, when a small brochure about it was issued. The Kh-65's weight is smaller (may be the result of additional fuel tanks in Kh-SD) and the guidance system is different. According to the initial 1992 information, the Kh-65 was intended for attacks against stationary targets of known coordinates and its homing system was to be similar to that of the Kh-101 (inertial-Doppler navigation with electro-optical position correction) but without a terminal homing system. The range of Kh-65 was quoted as 580-600km.

    Will have a launch weight of 1,600kg and will have a conventioanl penetrating (deep fortifications, command posts) or cassette warhead (arifields and surface targets) weighing 400kg. 580-600km range at least.

    The Kh-SD makes use of the Sigma missile launch system, intertial navigation with electro-optical correcton, and the TV terminal seeker.

    Kh-65SE

    Anti-Ship version with 250-280km range, active radar seeker. Luanch weight 1250kg. As described in the globalsecurity entry, basically.

    "Kh-SD" may be a description for the family of weapons they're designing, of which Kh-65 may be a part, or, the specs of Kh-65 got upgraded to Kh-SD.

    Anyway- the upgraded Tu-95MS16 (Tu-95MSM), Tu-160 (Tu-160SM??) and Tu-22M3 (Tu-22M5) will use that missile family- Kh-SD, Kh-555, Kh-101/Kh-102- all use the new Kh-101 guidance system and Sigma Mission Planning System. Also a new supersonic weapon is planned.

    Tu-22M5 will additionally use the Kh-32 (new Kh-22).

    Comment

    • GarryB
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2000
      • 8678

      #3
      It has a triangular shaped nose section that is supposed to reduce rcs and improve aerodynamics. It is rather unlikely to enter widespread service as Yakhont can perform a similar role at similar range but at much higher speed.

      The Domestic model might retain a 600km range in the anti ship role and be used by aircraft like the Tu-142. It is just a diversification of the Kh-55 missile. The Kh-101 seems to be the way forward and conventional models of it are more likely to be used.

      The main use for the Kh-65 in my opinion would be to use up all of the unused Kh-55s when they are replaced or time expired.

      Comment

      • Vympel
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2000
        • 2504

        #4
        Originally posted by GarryB
        It has a triangular shaped nose section that is supposed to reduce rcs and improve aerodynamics. It is rather unlikely to enter widespread service as Yakhont can perform a similar role at similar range but at much higher speed.
        Kh-SD will, I think, but Kh-65SE is probably dead.

        The Domestic model might retain a 600km range in the anti ship role and be used by aircraft like the Tu-142. It is just a diversification of the Kh-55 missile. The Kh-101 seems to be the way forward and conventional models of it are more likely to be used.
        Well, unless the target isn't worth using a 5,000km range CALCM on- that seems to be the idea to me.

        The main use for the Kh-65 in my opinion would be to use up all of the unused Kh-55s when they are replaced or time expired.
        I'm pretty sure the Kh-SD/65? is a new manufacture airframe- after all, the Kh-55s are being turned into Kh-555s (well, not all of them).

        Comment

        • GarryB
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2000
          • 8678

          #5
          Tu-22M5 will additionally use the Kh-32 (new Kh-22).
          Sorry to deviate from the topic but is there anything more available publicly on the Kh-32. All I have heard is that it is basically the same design with a better (safer) handling with lower prep times but with increased speed (mach 4.5-5) and double the range of the Kh-22 (with similar flight profiles).

          Comment

          • Vympel
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 2504

            #6
            Unfortunately no- I've only got the same info as you- Tupolev Bombers

            Comment

            • GarryB
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 8678

              #7
              I'm pretty sure the Kh-SD/65? is a new manufacture airframe- after all, the Kh-55s are being turned into Kh-555s (well, not all of them).
              It was my understanding that the Kh-SD/65s were merely Kh-55s and/or Kh-555s with the seeker developed for the Kh-101 fitted that would be used for strategic missions where nuclear warheads were not needed. As such they would be used by strategic aircraft and not therefore be bound by the limitation in range. The main reason for their reduction in range is mainly due to their mission of engaging mobile naval targets, which would restrict their range due to their speed. ie by the time a 3,000km range subsonic missile arrives the target vessel could be anywhere. Flying low all the way to the target will halve the range of the weapon anyway plus the larger bulkier warhead and terminal guidance systems further reduce the range of the weapon.

              Comment

              • Srbin
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2003
                • 2137

                #8
                It was weird because it said that the Kh-65 was integrated onto the Su-35 and Su-37.

                Are any of these missiles being integrated onto them?

                Comment

                • Vympel
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 2504

                  #9
                  Originally posted by GarryB
                  It was my understanding that the Kh-SD/65s were merely Kh-55s and/or Kh-555s with the seeker developed for the Kh-101 fitted that would be used for strategic missions where nuclear warheads were not needed.
                  The Kh-555 is conventional as well.

                  As such they would be used by strategic aircraft and not therefore be bound by the limitation in range. The main reason for their reduction in range is mainly due to their mission of engaging mobile naval targets, which would restrict their range due to their speed. ie by the time a 3,000km range subsonic missile arrives the target vessel could be anywhere. Flying low all the way to the target will halve the range of the weapon anyway plus the larger bulkier warhead and terminal guidance systems further reduce the range of the weapon.
                  The Kh-SD/65? is the land-attack version- it's fitted with the Kh-101 equipment and requires the Sigma mission planning system, just like the Kh-101/102 and Kh-555.

                  Only the Kh-65SE is for anti-ship, it has an active radar terminal seeker, which is much more appropriate than the Kh-101s terminal TV picture comparison guidance system.

                  Comment

                  • Vympel
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 2504

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Srbin
                    It was weird because it said that the Kh-65 was integrated onto the Su-35 and Su-37.

                    Are any of these missiles being integrated onto them?
                    Either intergrated or may be intergrated, I'm unsure.

                    Comment

                    • GarryB
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 8678

                      #11
                      I would guess that despite being a rather large weapon the Kh-SD and its anti ship counterpart the Kh-65SE (one presumes the E means for export) would have a fairly limited market and that the Russian habit of trying to evolve models of weapons that can't be exported into weapons that can might extend to the Kh-65SE being a weapon that has reduced range specifically to make it exportable. If that is the case then you really need a platform that can carry it and a large multirole fighter like the Flanker family would be close to top of the list.

                      The Kh-65SE is not listed for export at the Rusarm website, nor in "russia's arms 2001-2002".

                      Comment

                      • GarryB
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 8678

                        #12
                        Well, unless the target isn't worth using a 5,000km range CALCM on- that seems to be the idea to me.
                        The problem is of course that the conventional shorter range weapon being based on the larger weapon takes up the same space on the aircraft. I personally think it is more a case on using conventional or nuclear warheads rather than a question of range discrepancies. (in other words rather than a choice between a Kh-55 with a 2,500km range or a Kh-SD with a 600km range it is more a question of 200 Kt nuke warhead of a Kh-55 or 4-500kg HE warhead of a Kh-SD).
                        Such decisions will be made before takeoff rather than during a mission I would assume.

                        Comment

                        • Vympel
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 2504

                          #13
                          In all liklihood, the Kh-65/65SE is dead. The Kh-SD, whatever it is and whatever similiarity it bears to the Kh-65, doesn't seem to be however.

                          The problem is of course that the conventional shorter range weapon being based on the larger weapon takes up the same space on the aircraft.
                          True, but it doesn't weigh nearly as much.

                          Comment

                          • TJ
                            TJ
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 783

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Srbin
                            It was weird because it said that the Kh-65 was integrated onto the Su-35 and Su-37.

                            Are any of these missiles being integrated onto them?
                            '711' crashed.

                            Comment

                            • Vympel
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 2504

                              #15
                              The Su-37 as an aircraft project still exists. It's probably being constructed right now.

                              Comment

                              • Srbin
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 2137

                                #16
                                So is KH-SD going to be integrated maybe onto the Flankers?

                                Comment

                                • GarryB
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 8678

                                  #17
                                  So is KH-SD going to be integrated maybe onto the Flankers?
                                  I would expect it is much like the R-37 saga. If there is a customer out there that wants it it could probably be added as long as the customer was cleared.

                                  Unfortunately the Kh-SD and Kh-65 and other missiles based on cruise missiles are considered rather sensitive items. Needless to say a half dozen Kh-SDs with the guts ripped out and a simple GPS guidance system and autopilot with a small nuke could be launched from the back of a boat in water around the US very easily... reserve another nuke to destroy the launch boat and who does the US bomb for that one? Lots of major population areas near the sea in the lower American states.

                                  If Mexican coke planes can fly in why can't a tiny cruise missile flying at low level.

                                  I pretty much expect the Kh-SD will remain a weapon of the RuAFs strategic bomber force and that they will buy it for uses where nuclear weapons are not appropriate. As such it is not likely to be an item they will readily want to export. They certainly have plenty of other weapons to use for that role like the Yakhont-M and versions of the Kazoo.

                                  Comment

                                  • heeroyui
                                    Member
                                    • Oct 2004
                                    • 88

                                    #18
                                    Greetings

                                    Some photos of this system

                                    KH-65SE





                                    Comment

                                    • Blackcat
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Dec 2003
                                      • 1407

                                      #19
                                      Again coordinated to -----

                                      http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=18

                                      and if possible merge it with the Russian cruise missile thead

                                      At ur service always, except for some buffalos ... appologise to the poor animal for using it ...

                                      Comment

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