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RSK MiG: work on 1.44 continue, orders on hand rise

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  • Shkval1
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2003
    • 114

    RSK MiG: work on 1.44 continue, orders on hand rise

    According to

    http://www.vpk-news.ru/article.asp?p...cles.weapon_01

    One year change in stock of orders: it rises from 1.4 to 2.6bln, and company hopes for 6bln to 2008.

    Also deputy director of MiG Engeneer Centre Andrey Karasev confirmed that work on project 1.44 continue, the real tests with new equipment pack (electronics) will continue at the end of 2004.
  • Srbin
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 2137

    #2
    Mig 1.44 resurrected? Who would really buy it?

    Comment

    • Shkval1
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2003
      • 114

      #3
      Originally posted by Srbin
      Mig 1.44 resurrected? Who would really buy it?
      RSK sees a lot of potential in foreign customers.

      Comment

      • Srbin
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2003
        • 2137

        #4
        I don't know but the Mig 1.44 costs something like 70mn. I am really not exactly sure but if they can get at least one serious potential customer then it's worth it otherwise I dont know.

        Comment

        • Shkval1
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2003
          • 114

          #5
          Originally posted by Srbin
          I don't know but the Mig 1.44 costs something like 70mn. I am really not exactly sure but if they can get at least one serious potential customer then it's worth it otherwise I dont know.
          The price and pack yet to be discussed.

          Anyway, the aircraft isn't going on the market just tomorrow.

          Comment

          • Srbin
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2003
            • 2137

            #6
            MiG has been talking about developing a 5th generation fighter. Could it just be this Mig 1.44?

            Comment

            • Vympel
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 2504

              #7
              It probably just means as part of the PAK FA program- MiG participation as junior to Sukhoi is not new information. The Su-47 and MiG 1.44 were both supposed to play a role in the program, somehow.

              Comment

              • Srbin
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2003
                • 2137

                #8
                Yes but what does it have to do with MiG restarting develoment of Mig 1.44?

                Comment

                • aerospacetech
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 1459

                  #9
                  Perhaps they will resurrect the 1.44 and use it as a techical demonstrator for a lightweight fighter with the same basic aerodynamic configuration?

                  They were originally supposed to build an LFI and MFI with 1 and 2 engines respectively, the LFI using the same aerodynamics. LFI was shelved- maybe they've dusted off the plans?
                  Available now: my book Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects from Blue Envoy Press

                  Comment

                  • aerospacetech
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 1459

                    #10
                    Translation:

                    "three weeks ago the Director-General of our corporation made a decision about unwinding of further works by aircraft 1.44". In the opinion of assistant director inzhenerny center, the realization of this project will be for Russia less costly and simpler than the creation of new destroyer, since all technical developments for aircraft 1.44, connected/bonded with the engine, by aerodynamics, by main aircraft systems, did not become obsolete. Only the radio-electronic equipment, which swiftly develops in recent years, needs replacement. According to Andrey Karasev, to engineering center is posed the problem of renewing the tests of aircraft 1.44 prior to the end of 2004 in the opinion of Andrey Karasev, the circumstance that the concept of heavy destroyer is chosen basic for Russian VVS, there must not cross the great work, accomplished at the firm "MiG" on the creation of the aircraft of the fifth generation."

                    Sounds like they are restarting 1.42/44 development as a simpler and cheaper rival to the PAK-FA.
                    Available now: my book Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects from Blue Envoy Press

                    Comment

                    • seahawk
                      F-4 Phanatic
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 4616

                      #11
                      Soory, but I doubt that they have the resources (money) to delevop a 5th generation fighter of their own. That is impossible. Perhaps they can continue studying the design, but that is it.
                      Member of ACIG

                      an unnamed Luftwaffe officer:"Typhoon is a warm weather plane. If you want to be operational at -20C you have to deploy the F-4F."

                      Comment

                      • Vympel
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 2504

                        #12
                        They're crazy- there's no way it'll be cheaper than PAK FA, not at that weight.

                        Comment

                        • Srbin
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 2137

                          #13
                          Yes I agree with seahawk

                          MiG is very cash strapped. Maybe if the Algerian deal could bring them some funds

                          Comment

                          • Shkval1
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 114

                            #14
                            Originally posted by aerospacetech
                            Perhaps they will resurrect the 1.44 and use it as a techical demonstrator for a lightweight fighter with the same basic aerodynamic configuration?
                            Closer to truth: yes, 1.44 had very sophisticated configuration with a lot of unique engineering solutions, to throw it on the shelf wasn't wise decision.

                            LFI or not LFI, reviving project is good alternative/addition to PAK-FA, which is going into project upholding stage some day soon.

                            Comment

                            • PeeD
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 128

                              #15
                              I see a foreign market for a new heavy long range fighter. It would must have a good aerodynamic with inertial bays two strong engines for a very long range in an area of 3000-4000km with weapons. It would must be capable to deliver about 3000-4000kg of ordnance to a target 1500-2000km away in a high-low-high profile with a Mach-1+ in the attack and initial leaving phases. Surly it would also must have a two man crew.

                              Currently only the Su-30 is available for a about similar job which nearly everyone could buy, but its capabilities are too limited. MiG with its experience could develop such a fighter and the 1.44 is a good layout, if they would build the airframe, the engines and FBW and set up a working production line which use high-tech materials, everything in good quality, then maybe China and Iran would buy the aircraft if there is a complete technical documentation. China maybe would must give up its XXJ-12 but could put everything it wants into it; also Iran would integrate its own weapon systems to it.

                              I see an 80-100 and 150-200 market for Iran and China and eventually Russia and some other larger AF's would buy their examples. Ok MiG isnt in a very good condition but with cash from China and Iran they could build it for the time after 2010 and by then both China and Iran would be in a need for such an aircraft.

                              China and Iran could equip it in the role of a strong long-range airborne radar carrier, with the RIO/WSO having good data-link and ECM system and long range stand-off weapons like CMs and LRAAMs.

                              Comment

                              • Srbin
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 2137

                                #16
                                Who would want to buy the MFI over the PAK-FA in the future when PAK-FA will be bought by Russia and India as well as supported by both and MFI would be supported only by MiG and not anyoen else.

                                I don't think China would give up it's J-XX for the MFI, if they wanted they would've done it long time ago but decided to develop it for themselves. Iran? I doubt it, their aerospace industry has taken off too and they probably will not be buying anything in the future.

                                Comment

                                • PeeD
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2003
                                  • 128

                                  #17
                                  I dont know if the PAK-FA will be really heavy, it could be something between Su-30 and F-35.

                                  The XXJ-12 yes maybe to project is to advanced by now but like with the PAK-FA it could be something lighter although it is said to be in F/A-22 size. But with China there is the problem that such a heavy design could be too advanced, I mean avionics are one thing but for such an aircraft much experience is needed and here MiG could developed the airframe and strong modern engines are also needed. China might get problems with the XXJ-12 if its really in F/A-22 size.

                                  Iran by now had only experience with light fighters and now a new light/medium has been developed but the resources and experience needed for such a heavy fighter should not be available. The development of such a aircraft needs simply very much resources and development founds, also not many are likely to be build thats why I see only China, Iran and Russia building and founding something like that together, alone its too comply, expensive and simply much.

                                  Sure the chances are very slim to none existing but it would be a good idea.

                                  Comment

                                  • Vympel
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 2504

                                    #18
                                    The PAK FA range requirement is a 1,200km combat radius (to operate from the few airfields in more remote regions of Russia)- similar to that of the Su-27 (which is given as 1,200-1,500km, depending on the source). That's the range requirement before it was reported that it'll be the size of the Su-27 and that it's weight was reported back in 2002 as "heavier than previously planned".

                                    Course, it's a rare thing for a fighter to not put on weight during development. They've already said they're going for "better than the F-35 and equal to the F-22", so a new Flanker-class isn't surprising.

                                    Comment

                                    • F-18 Hamburger
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Sep 2003
                                      • 3255

                                      #19
                                      first export customer will be China, who will build it at home as the XXJ

                                      Comment

                                      • crobato
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 7172

                                        #20
                                        I sense it's not meant to counter Shenyang's XXJ, but rather MiG could be positioning itself for Chengdu's twin engined "J-10C". which has a very similar layout. That and recent sales successes helped buoyed its prospects.

                                        But to get this done requires serious money, and the only serious potential backer for this might be China.

                                        Arms project development are similar to trying to get a loan from a bank. Before you can get the bank to lend you, you would have to demonstrate the financial feasibility of your project. If the bank considers you a viable investment they will go for it.

                                        That is why in the US you have a technology demonstrator. This is used to demonstrate to the "bank" that the project is financially and technologically viable for serious backing. All the US fighter projects go through this stage ("YF-X" series).

                                        MiG can only go so far and invest developing the technological demonstrator, from which it can be shown to potential customer that the project is viable. From then on, the customer can lend funds to develop the project.

                                        I think MiG may have sensed that China is positioning for a backup in case the XXJ might be too ambitious, and that backup is Chengdu's twin engined "J-10X" project project which looks remarkably like the MiG 1.44.

                                        So why reinvent the wheel? The Chengdu project is still in its infancy, still in the computer design stage while the MiG 1.44 is already flying. But if allowed to continue, the twin engined J-10X project can be a serious export contender in about 10 years. At the same time, MiG has to look at its serious long term survival and continuing to upgrade MiG-29 does not cut it.

                                        China and CAC will no doubt require a serious technological partnership and sharing, but MiG can leave with that so long it gets a major share in the Chinese market, gets the cash and gets to guarantee its survival in the long run. The loss of the Chinese market was a decisive turning point in the fortunes of MiG to the benefit of Sukhoi. (Imagine the switch of history if the PLAAF bought and licensed lucrative MiG-29 deals instead of SU-27/30s).

                                        If one thing is a trend is that tomorrow's fighter projects will require partnerships (e.g. Eurofighter) and consortiums and that it will be increasingly difficult to do it alone.
                                        pb::

                                        Comment

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