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Atlas Cava light weight fighter.. a Hoax?

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  • WACHENR0DER
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2003
    • 777

    Atlas Cava light weight fighter.. a Hoax?



    found this from a South African site..

    number of different reports were published each claiming to be as accurate as the previous report. Some of the reports suggested that the existing Cheetah Es were re fitted with Atar 9K50 engines from the retired F1CZ aircraft, some claimed the Cheetah "R" was the latest type under Project 855 or Project Bark and even quoted the total cost of this project, while others claimed the Cheetah "R" was actually the new Cheetah C under development. There were even reports that South Africa had developed a twin Atar 9K50 fighter aircraft and a model of this type at an aerospace exhibition fuelled more speculation that "Project Cava" existed. Although the model was essentially a single engine aircraft. But the sole Cheetah "R" fuelled the majority of reports as many concluded the SAAF was in need of reconnaissance aircraft as very few aircraft remained in the SAAF's inventory that could be used for this role. The SAAF simply capitalised on wrong reports in the media to protect its current black project which was well underway.
    http://ipmssa.inext.co.za/KB/Aircraf...ackground2.htm
  • GoldenDragon
    Fly GoldenDragon Airlines
    • Aug 2003
    • 4196

    #2
    Nope

    It's not a hoax.

    I actually looked into the plane when an AFM member asked me to model it (back when I was still a nice guy.)

    Atlas actually did design the plane but it never took flight.
    Last edited by GoldenDragon; 7th December 2006, 01:42.
    http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/...es_cropped.jpg

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    • ForkTailedDevil
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2003
      • 195

      #3
      Looks a lot like a Hornet mated to a delta wing IMO.The front fuselage in the pic is very Hornet like.Especially in the second pic.If it was twin engined it would be even more so.I'm probably the only one seeing that though.

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      • GoldenDragon
        Fly GoldenDragon Airlines
        • Aug 2003
        • 4196

        #4
        Fork, the second picture is just a 3D model I built. It has nothing to do with Atlas. I should have made it clearer.

        The top picture is the official model commissioned by Atlas (South African, makes the Cheetah too).

        I didn't even have line drawings so I basically eyeballed top picture which is the only photo I can across in making the model that appears in the second picture. Don't depend on it for accuracy.
        http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/...es_cropped.jpg

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        • GoldenDragon
          Fly GoldenDragon Airlines
          • Aug 2003
          • 4196

          #5
          Here's another pict of my Cava model
          Last edited by GoldenDragon; 7th December 2006, 01:42.
          http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/...es_cropped.jpg

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          • F-18 Hamburger
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2003
            • 3255

            #6
            Re: Atlas Cava light weight fighter.. a Hoax?

            Originally posted by WACHENR0DER


            found this from a South African site..



            http://ipmssa.inext.co.za/KB/Aircraf...ackground2.htm
            looks quite a bit like the LCA, and probably would've been the same size too.

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            • Ja Worsley
              The last sane man a live!
              • Jan 2000
              • 6550

              #7
              That was going to replace the Cheetah, it was going to be a good plane but things changed in SA and F.W.DeClerk ended Apartheid and life returned to that country.
              It's a good thing you are short, that way you don't have to live up to a high IQ!

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              • GoldenDragon
                Fly GoldenDragon Airlines
                • Aug 2003
                • 4196

                #8
                People forget how advanced South Africa was technically. It had a successful nuke project. It's really a little piece of Western Europe situated on the southern tip of Africa (okay, their racial attitude back then was 18th century Europe).

                Looking up older threads here at AFM on the Cava, this is what Thor, who brought the subject to me on October, 2002, said about the plane:

                Project CAVA (sometimes "Carver") was started in the '80s to replace the Canberra , Buccaneer , and Mirage 111 in the South African fleet.The Cheetah was a total upgrade of the Mirage 111 and was always supposed to be an interim type to serve until the late 90's until CAVA would come into service.The reasons for the project was that under Apartheid , South Africa was under an arms embargo.There was some speculation that a twin engined design would be produced , either as an upscaled attack variant with the single engined type . or possibly instead of it.This was done under the instigation of the SAAF chief , an ex buccaneer man and a firm advocate of twin engines.

                This aircraft was NOT a modellers excercise.Pres. FW De Klerk mentioned its cancellation in parliament along with the 6 nuclear weapons in the early 90's.Upwards of 10 billion Rand had been spent on the project already as well as a mock-up to test systems placement.Comprehensive wind tunnel tests and a host of related work had been completed.Apparently a prototype was either beginning to be constructed or was just about to commence.Towards the end of the research and test phase , quite a few Israeli engineers made redundant from the Lavi cancellation joined from 1987 onwards , leading to speculation that it would be a Lavi lookalike , ala the J-10

                The design was to be a Fly by Wire (FBW) unstable design with a large percentage of composites in its construction.There is evidence that the Advanced Composite Evaluator (ACE) constructed by Atlas/Denel in the late 80's early 90's was part of the R&D into aircraft composites.The Ace was a turbo prop trainer in the class of the Pilatus PC-9 or Tucano.It had at the time the highest percentage of composites in a military type aircaft in the world at the time.

                One of the most interesting aspects was to be the powerplant.It was said that it would be an engine "based on or using the Atar 9k50 as a starting point but considerably different." The project was cancelled as the end of Apartheid did not justify its continued development.I think that this was a mistake as it would have been in the class of the Gripen and would have probably entered service possibly a little sooner.The aircraft was to incorporate a high degree of composites as well as it's small size would have made it slightly "stealthy" in clean config.

                I don't think it is that similar to Indias ACA.It appears to have a different nose section , cockpit area , a different wing design and better wing/fuselage blending.It does appear to be in roughly the same weight class.I think it looks more like a single engined Rafael without the Canards.The funny thing is that it would be a very viable project today , given that the Eurofighter , Rafael , export Gripens and Indian ACA are some time off entering operational service.
                http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/...es_cropped.jpg

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                • ForkTailedDevil
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 195

                  #9
                  Ah, ok Goldendragon.My bad.Cracking model anyway.It was still early and I wasn't doing anything at work so I was a bit off when I made that comment.

                  Comment

                  • F-18 Hamburger
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 3255

                    #10
                    I didn't say look exactly like the LCA, but similar to it.. the wing sweep looking about the same, both using tailless deltas and relying heavily on composites..

                    as for the Rafale look alike, I think the Novi Avion is pretty much the closest thing.

                    I must say your model looks good. Much better than the one below me.

                    Comment

                    • Indian1973
                      Senior Member
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 2884

                      #11
                      if the wing size be considered the same, its about 1m longer
                      than the LCA. also its features a more traditional delta than the
                      LCA whose outer section has a more deeper sweep.

                      Pakistan could have had this 10 years before the FC-1, had it
                      gone through. heck, they could have had it before the LCA itself

                      Comment

                      • Distiller
                        Talent on Loan from God
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 4763

                        #12
                        Not a hoax. Only a daydream of times past.
                        "Distiller ... arrogant, ruthless, and by all reports (including his own) utterly charming"

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                        • GDL
                          GDL
                          Aussie Analyst
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 1378

                          #13
                          People forget how advanced South Africa was technically.
                          What do mean 'was'?
                          ~ Glenn - Endgltige Vernichtung - !

                          Visit the Aussie Fifth Column Forum for discussion and debate on life, politics, and weapons and warfare.

                          Comment

                          • GoldenDragon
                            Fly GoldenDragon Airlines
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 4196

                            #14
                            Oops, "was" as when the Cava was designed. Oh yes, SA still has formidable tech base. Aside from China, the only third world nation producing a bvr

                            Of course, part of SA was never "third world."
                            http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/...es_cropped.jpg

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