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CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

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    CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

    The following images were published yesterday on the Cyprus National Guard official website. The images show a black Hind, referred to as Mi-35P (though it is also referred to as Mi-24VK2). Can anyone with some experience provide some debrief of what the photos show?

    http://www.army.gov.cy/en/osce/attack_helicopters/2_side.html

    http://www.army.gov.cy/en/osce/attack_helicopters/2_face.html

    http://www.army.gov.cy/en/osce/attack_helicopters/2_top.html

    I have also included 1 of 3 published Gazelle photos for anyone interested:

    http://www.army.gov.cy/en/osce/attack_helicopters/1_side.html


    Regards
    Twi.

    Launch at Twilight - "Thermal Crossover"



    #2
    RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

    Why isn't it armed with a chin mounted cannon?? I am surprised that Cyprus wouldn't want that capability.


    J33Nelson
    -=*J33NELSON*=-

    Comment


      #3
      RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

      It looks to me to be an unusual combination of new and old.

      It definitely uses largely Mi-24P armament system.

      The stub wings are new and their reduced size reduces weight and drag, while improving weapon capacity.


      The undercarriage looks like it might be the newer fixed (lighter) models.

      Otherwise it looks like a standard hind with exhaust suppressors, IR jammer, flare launchers and "Natasha" device.

      Probably better than cold war exported Hinds, but not the best available now. Lack of TI and other stabilised sights would give this aircraft very little night all weather capability. Of course the night/all weather upgrade would probably double the cost of the aircraft...


      Comment


        #4
        RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

        The designation Mi-24VK2 doesn't make sense - a Mi-24V is armed with the 12.7mm in the nose turret, not with the twin 30mm like this one. It looks IMHO a little dorky with those short stubwings although the colour is nicely sinister (yet a bit useless for a not-night capable helo). Anyone any info on what the outside launchers are for? They don't seem familiar to me.

        And i think it would have looked even better if they checked the tyre pressure before photographing.
        Regards,

        Arthur
        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
        Bertrand Russell

        Comment


          #5
          RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

          [updated:LAST EDITED ON 07-12-02 AT 04:11 PM (GMT)]"not with the twin 30mm like this one."

          Where is the gun located? I can't seem to find it in the pics! I think those launchers are for the " Ataka-V high-precision guided missile complex featuring anti-tank missile Ataka with supersonic speed, semi-automatic control system and 3 types of warheads:"1

          http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mi28/mi283.html





          J33Nelson







          1) http://www.rusarm.ru/exprod.htm
          Attachments:


          -=*J33NELSON*=-

          Comment


            #6
            RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

            I was also a bit confused about the cannon. I am certain the Hinds are night capable, becuase the July accident that killed the National Guard leadership was an obs mission to overview a night scramble exercise of some of the Hinds built at that time.

            The black colour further suggests this. The #####-up with the Hind designations could be simple disinformation or one of many media #####-ups.


            It is also possible someone went at the pictures with photo-shop, but I doubt this. Its not worth the trouble.

            Twi


            Launch at Twilight - "Thermal Crossover"


            Comment


              #7
              RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

              [updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-12-02 AT 02:48 AM (GMT)]"It looks IMHO a little dorky with those short stubwings "

              The stub wings are based on the wings of the Mi-28 (as photos in J33Nelsons post number 4 show) and greatly improve weapons capability.
              The original wing of the Hind (not including Hind B etc) have traditionally had three weapon stations with the two under wing pylons for rocket pods, gun pods or bombs, while the third pylon acting as a end plate had two anti tank missiles (ie AT-2 or AT-3 or AT-6). Maximum anti tank missile warload with unguided rockets with the old wing was 4 wing tip, 8 outer wing plus inner wing rocket pod... a total of 12 missiles and 40 x 80mm rockets. With the new stub wing the outer pylon holds 8 missiles while the inner pylon holds 20 x 80mm rockets for a total of 16 AT-6 or Ataka ATGMs plus 40 x 80mm rockets. It also generates much less drag which improves performance.

              The flat looking tyres is what you get with low pressure tyres and a 12 ton helicopter.

              "Where is the gun located? I can't seem to find it in the pics! "

              The twin 30mm fixed gun is mounted on the right side of the fuselage (in the head on shot the flash hiders are visible on the left hand side of the picture).

              The 4 barrel turret mounted 12.7mm gun is quite formidible but if the bad guys are firing back with 50 cal weapons you have no range advantage. So this 30mm gun was added and was quite popular. (it is quite powerful).
              More recently a twin 23mm gun in a chin turret has been added but there have reportedly been some feeding problems with it, though I guess they will be sorted out in time.

              "It is also possible someone went at the pictures with photo-shop, but I doubt this. Its not worth the trouble. "

              The colour and upgrades is consistant with other upgraded Hinds I have seen.
              I have seen photos of the Mi-35M which depicts an aircraft very similar to this helicopter... the obvious differences are that the Mi-35M has a ball turret with TI on the right in place of the LLLTV fairing. (the radar like fairing on the left is for guiding the AT-6 and Ataka missiles and is the same for both aircraft).
              Also the side mounted 30mm is replaced by a twin 23mm gun in a chin turret. The only other difference is the lack of the "bumps" in the head on shot of the "Natasha" device.

              Here is a pic of a Mi-35M:
              (Notice the tail rotor and the main rotor are from the Mi-28... most obvious with the rear unit which has changed from a 3 blade to a four blade x configuration... new rotor is lighter, stronger, and a hingeless rigid design that doesn't require fluid lubrication... it should allow rolls and loops to be performed if necessary and increases lift as well as reducing weight.)
              Attachments:

              Comment


                #8
                RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

                Thanks for the info Garry.

                Can anyone clear up the matter of air-defence armaments? The Cyprus Mail mentioned the "Igla", which I traslated as SA-18. Is this correct? If so, where are they going to be loaded, and what are the stats?

                Twi



                Launch at Twilight - "Thermal Crossover"


                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

                  The Igla is indeed the SA-18 (Igla-1 is the SA-16).
                  Quite comparable to late model stingers.

                  If you look at the photo in my previous post there is a twin MANPADS launcher to the left of the nose of the helo. In this case however I think it is a Western MANPADS as this helo was optimised for western weapons (note the 19 shot 70mm rocket pod mounted under the wing and to the right out of the picture was a French 20mm GIAT cannon as an option to replace the 23mm turret gun.

                  Igla missiles for Aircraft carriage are in quad launchers.
                  Their stats are as follows:

                  Targets: tactical aircraft, helicopters, RPVs and cruise missiles;
                  Target engagement alt: 10-3,500m;
                  Target engagement Range: 500-5,200m;
                  Target Speed:
                  head-on: 360-400 m/s;
                  pursuit: up to 320 m/s;
                  Weight: 17kgs;
                  Time into action: up to 13 sec;

                  Missile details: (9M39)
                  Calibre: 72mm;
                  Length: 1,574;
                  Weight: 10.6kg;
                  Av flight speed: 570m/s;
                  Homing head: thermal, passive;
                  Warhead: HE fragmentation;
                  Fuze: impact, penetration;
                  Warhead self destruct time: 14-17 sec;
                  Operating temp range: -40-+50 degrees C.

                  Here is another picture of a "new" hind but with the twin 30mm cannon and below it the original weapon sight which is the same as the weapon sight on the Cypriot hinds. (note the nose mounted TI sight is experimental, and also that the rotors are from the Mi-28).
                  Attachments:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    CYPRIOT Mi-35Ms

                    The 12 Cypriot Mi-35Ms, a version of the Mi-24VM can carry 8 armed troops, has armament of:

                    Twin cannon GSH-23L 23mm,
                    Link

                    Can carry up to 18 Ataka anti-tank missiles,
                    Link

                    Can carry up to 8 Igla anti-air missiles, (air to air version)
                    Link

                    S-13 rockets.
                    Link


                    Below are a few new pictures of them.


                    Cheers,
                    Alepou 340MB
                    Superior tactics can always defeat superior numbers.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "The 12 Cypriot Mi-35Ms, a version of the Mi-24VM can carry 8 armed troops, has armament of: Twin cannon GSH-23L 23mm "


                      I thought the Cypriot Mi-35s were armed with the twin 30mm cannon and not the twin 23mm cannon. Can someone clear this up for me??

                      Thanks
                      -=*J33NELSON*=-

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "carry 8 armed troops" - But only if they're midgets armed with hand guns. If you've ever seen the rear compartment on a Hind you'll know that the eight men who could be carried would have to be very small and not carrying too much kit.
                        Regards, Ivan

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Clear up...

                          Alepou - I'm afraid the aircraft are not related to the Mi-24VM, of VK2, but are in fact MI-35P "KROKODILE" versions of the HIND-F. A total of 12 aircraft were purchased and it is reported that an additional 4 options have been firmly purchased following the collapse of UN talks in Nicosia.

                          Ink - The Hind-F can most certainly carry 8 troops - to my understanding each capable of carrying 35lbs of equipment plus assault rifle. It is true that the Hinds are not to be used by the MKY/KD3 Cypriot Rapid Reaction Force (codename undesignated), but will be instead used to deploy conventional troops armed with shoulder-launched anti-tank weapons such as MILAN-3 or ERYX.

                          J33 - the weapon mountings I believe were 30mm, but that it is only what I was told. The Cyprus Armed Forces have put out A LOT of disinformation about their Hinds prior to media exposure. The Turkish-Cypriots accused the Cypriots of equipping with depleted-uranium ammunition.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            ps Alepou

                            where did you get your pictures from. Very interesting...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              why is it blue?.. or better... dark blue?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I think you'll find they're black.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: RE: CYPRUS Mi-35 Hind photos finally declassified and published!

                                  GarryB, you'd probably be pleased to know that this HIND picture you posted, the Mi-24PN:

                                  "Russian Army Aviation has ordered the upgrade of the first two Mi-24P 'Hind-F' combat helicopters to Mi-24PN standard, with systems enabling operation at night and in all weather conditions. The first modernised Mi-24PNs will probably be delivered to 344th Army Aviation's training and evaluation centre in Torzhok. The tests with a prototype Mi-24PN began in July 2000."

                                  The night-vision system is the Zarevo (Blaze), produced by Zenith (makers of the Shkval).

                                  What about the GOES-342 version of the night upgrade, however?

                                  It's all very confusing.
                                  Last edited by Vympel; 23rd March 2003, 08:01.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    @Twilight2002,

                                    Im no expert on hinds, the pictures and armament info is from a very small article in Ptisi magazine March 2003 issue.

                                    It caught my eye because they are new pictures not the same as the ones that you posted from the Cypriot web site.

                                    As for the gun issue, Im only quoting what the article said.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Alepou 340MB

                                    Ps. The colour to me looks more like a very dark blue gray.
                                    Superior tactics can always defeat superior numbers.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Twilight, the cabin of the Hind is like the rear troop compartment of an APC... you take the official figure for seating and you deduct 3-4 for real combat.

                                      All Hinds have the same sized cabins and they are all supposed to take 8 fuly equiped troops. In combat in Afghanistan it was found that 4-5 troops was the max normal load... and this was with reduced weapons load. Of course Afghanistan is a worse case scenario with hot and high conditions, but if you are carrying troops 8 doesn't fit... especially if the LZ is hot.
                                      Perhaps with lightly equipped police... without bodyarmour or packs or fullsized weapons you might squeese 8 in. But operationally the Soviets tended to put troops in Mi-8s and Mi-17s and use the Hinds for what they are... assault helicopters. (ie crew of four... including 2 door gunners.)

                                      If it is to be used to transport Milan teams then it will most likely carry just one and plenty of ammo. (That equates to three men).

                                      Vympel
                                      Thanks for the update... all weather Hinds.... nice!
                                      Regarding the GOES turret maybe they are not ready yet or they use a more modern TI that is expensive at the moment. (I had heard the latest GOES uses a 2nd or 3rd gen swedish TI.. a locally made TI will always be cheaper than an import).

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Garry,

                                        Didn't the Soviets also operate their Hinds with spare ammo in the cabin so that the crew could land at a safe location and reload the AT missiles and rockets without having to return all the way to base?

                                        Also, got a connected question here: In my Jane's Aircraft Recognition Guide the Notes for the Hind read "First seen in the West in 1974, the cabin design changed in 1977. Since then it has been mainly used in the gunship role, the cabin being used"
                                        Anyone know how that sentence is supposed to finish? The cabin being used for what?
                                        Regards, Ivan

                                        Comment


                                         

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