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Team Tempest Future Fighter from the UK

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  • mrmalaya
    Generation 4.75+++

    Team Tempest Future Fighter from the UK

    The UK future fighter project will feature, swarming weapons, DEW, virtual cockpit and to fly alongside F35 and Typhoon in 2035.
    Last edited by mrmalaya; 16th July 2018, 10:32.
  • Fedaykin
    Fueled by Tea

    #2
    Two things come to mind:

    1) How much will it look like FOAS

    2) What is the betting that this life size model will be the actual FOAS RCS test model redressed

    Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

    Comment

    • mrmalaya
      Generation 4.75+++

      #3
      It actually looks like a modernised Replica with A2A nose, and single seat cockpit from what i can tell.

      Now we get a better view it doesn't.....

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      Pictures courtesy of Tim Robinson of the RAeS on twitter.
      Last edited by mrmalaya; 16th July 2018, 10:58.

      Comment

      • Fedaykin
        Fueled by Tea

        #4
        Just watched the reveal, clearly derived from REPLICA which is in itself developed as part of FOAS. The tail looks exactly the same and the nose looks re-profiled so it can actually fit a radar. Intakes look a bit bigger but that could just be the angle, there is no way BAE Systems would have started from scratch on this!

        That being said before everybody gets excited this is a looooong way off being a real thing as it stands. BAE Systems could do a modern version of the EAP and build a flying tech demonstrator pulling through engines and systems from Typhoon without too much fuss.
        Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

        Comment

        • mrmalaya
          Generation 4.75+++

          #5
          If you ask me, and based on what has been said in the run up to this reveal, the airframe is designed so as not to have to reinvent the wheel (thus raising costs and the chance of delay). I think the top view undermines the idea that it's just a warmed over Replica though:


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          Again from Tim Robinson on twitter.

          The nose is noticeably flattened from the front.

          During the ongoing briefing AVM Rochelle is quoted as saying: "Funding is real. We are working at pace."
          Last edited by mrmalaya; 16th July 2018, 11:13.

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          • mrmalaya
            Generation 4.75+++

            #6
            The broader Combat Air Strategy is published in handout form here:

            https://assets.publishing.service.go...fold_PRINT.PDF

            With full document here:

            https://www.gov.uk/government/public...for-the-future

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            Last edited by mrmalaya; 16th July 2018, 11:18.

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            • mrmalaya
              Generation 4.75+++

              #7
              -RR are aiming to push thrust to weight and power generation to new levels with their engine. They also are planning to use magnets within the engine to convert kinetic to electrical energy.

              -IOC is aimed at 2035 with the planning finalised by 2020.

              -MBDA will put DEW, Swarming weapons and Hypersonic weapons into Tempest:
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              Courtesy of Tim Robinson on twitter.
              Last edited by mrmalaya; 16th July 2018, 11:31.

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              • Deino
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                Interesting... however how likely is this to ever materialise as a pure British project in mind of the Brexit and after France and Germany decided to go ahead with their joint effort?
                Last edited by Deino; 16th July 2018, 12:32.
                ...

                He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                My working week and my Sunday rest,
                My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                -------------------------------------------------
                W.H.Auden (1945)

                Comment

                • djcross
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #9
                  Positioning for partnership can reap the benefits of partner's investment in technology and huge potential for future sales.

                  But positioning for partnership requires government commitment, which may be hard to obtain from politicians who can only see as far as the next election.

                  Comment

                  • Alpha Bravo
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #10
                    I wonder if synergies can be achieved with the TFX, given that BAE is also heavily involved with that project too. Although clearly the requirements between the RAF and TAF will differ considerably, I can't help feeling there should have been some consideration given to the TFX project used as the basis; however, if any of the reports are to be believed, the REPLICA/FOAS is being used as a basis for the TFX in itself. Seems like another Typhoon vs Rafale story in the making. Is there potential for any other nation outside the EU as a collaborating partner on the Tempest?

                    Comment

                    • Deino
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      #11
                      Wasn't there some talk on attempts to maybe include Japan?
                      ...

                      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                      My working week and my Sunday rest,
                      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                      -------------------------------------------------
                      W.H.Auden (1945)

                      Comment

                      • mrmalaya
                        Generation 4.75+++

                        #12
                        Sweden and Italy are also unaligned (and I'm not clear on why the potential partners need to be outside of the EU)?

                        This project is funded and the R&D is already underway to finalise the best balance between stealth and all of the other requirements. It incorporates work that has already been concluded by the team and will see Typhoon upgraded with technology developed for this programme and vice versa. It is very much a Typhoon replacement and Japan now has the choice of the US and the UK for it's collaborative partner.


                        I personally see lots of ways in which efforts to reduce risk and cost have been planned into the programme.

                        Comment

                        • TomcatViP
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #13
                          The most important is that it pulls the Brit industry (and their EU partner) out of the ever lasting marrasm of never doing something that has to be fielded. Systems need an airframe and a user to get funded.
                          It might not fly at Mach 3 but it very we'll be at last airborne for real in 10 years

                          Comment

                          • mrmalaya
                            Generation 4.75+++

                            #14
                            yes on that note, the emphasis appears to be on the systems, weapons and connectivity rather than making it a Mach3 supercruiser.

                            Comment

                            • Orion
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              #15
                              I'd be surprised if Europe, ie EU and UK, can afford two production fighters. I think it can afford single prototypes of two designs followed by a production run of, say, 500 aeroplanes. This Tempest design is very much a marker for the post Brexit future.
                              David Mylchreest
                              Steam and Model Railway videos http://www.youtube.com/user/PenrithBeacon
                              Aviation videos http://www.youtube.com/user/austerfive

                              Comment

                              • XB-70
                                Rank 2 Registered User

                                #16
                                The mock up looks pretty sweet sporting that WWII era "night roundel". Going with a traditional layout (not tailless) makes it much more feasible since they won't need to prototype new TVC dependent control schemes - ditto with the system of systems approach. It's still going to need very good project management to see the light of day though.

                                From a technical aspect the most intriguing thing to me so far is the inlet. There is no diverter nor a DSI bump. I remember reading an article last year about Rolls Royce discussing the possibility of designing an engine which can handle turbulent and uneven flow. This seems to fit well with that...but a lot can change over 17 years.

                                Comment

                                • mrmalaya
                                  Generation 4.75+++

                                  #17
                                  It's not very clear, but here is the RR graphic on the engine with mention of distortion tolerance:

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                                  • Sintra
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    #18
                                    That incredible moment when the coverage of the unveiling of "Team Tempest" and the UKs Combat air strategy is vastly better done by the chaps of the Key Publishing Forum than by the likes of Janes, Key Aero, AW and Flight Global...
                                    sigpic

                                    Comment

                                    • Alpha Bravo
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      #19
                                      That schematic of the RR engine shows what appear to be bypass tubes aft of the fan stage, although it seems these are part of the active heat management system, probably feeding fresh bleed air into the gap between the inner and outer casing of the engine, shown in the figure. I also quite like how the electric motors are integrated in line with axis of the engine, rather than as an accessory appendage. Would be interesting to hear more details about the 'electric' power element.
                                      Last edited by Alpha Bravo; 16th July 2018, 14:51.

                                      Comment

                                      • Fedaykin
                                        Fueled by Tea

                                        #20
                                        To be fair this has come rather out of the blue so it is hardly surprising that the specialist press has to play catch up.
                                        Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

                                        Comment

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