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Franco-German next generation fighter

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  • eagle1
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Franco-German next generation fighter

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Ut...youtu.be&t=192

    Germany, France to move ahead on sixth-generation combat aircraft
    https://www.defensenews.com/2018/04/...mbat-aircraft/

    Dassault To Lead Franco-German Future Combat Air System
    http://www.defenseworld.net/news/224...m#.W0hh-PkzaUk

    The first CGI of the possible design seems promising and in line with other CGI 6th gen proposal form Boeing, NG or LM...A step ahead of more traditional designs like the F35, F22 and SU-57 which are still heavily influenced by 4th gen design buth with faceted shape.
    Last edited by eagle1; 13th July 2018, 08:35.
  • halloweene
    Rank 5 Registered User

    #2
    Notice extremely small nose either.... multifunctional panels. .. (can be seen on another slide)

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    • TomcatViP
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #3
      Notice that the lining suggests it was made out of 2d sketches. This was probably not designed in 3D under Catia as this images would like to infer.
      Notice also how all the components were added to make it look more real (see again the lining that cut the conformal antennae disposed all around (the more the better?).
      Notice also that the small beak nose could suggest as Hallow imply that no radar antenna is necessary (conformal antennae).
      Last edited by TomcatViP; 16th July 2018, 15:26.

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      • eagle1
        Rank 5 Registered User

        #4
        I think it is out of Catia, look at the video.

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        • TomcatViP
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #5
          It is out of Catia but not modeled under Catia (from sketches).

          Comment

          • eagle1
            Rank 5 Registered User

            #6
            not sure to see your point and I don't think it is true. Anyway some work and thought have gone into it, it is not a random attempt.

            Comment

            • TomcatViP
              Rank 5 Registered User

              #7
              Originally posted by Eagle1
              not sure to see your point and I don't think it is true.
              ?!

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              • eagle1
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                French President is going to have a briefing on SCAF roadmap and a demonstrator is to be ordered :

                According to our information, a working group will shortly present its "roadmap" to President Macron on the Franco-German SCAF (Future Air Combat System).

                A "plateau" gathering specialists from the Directorate General of Armament (DGA) and various staffs (Armed Forces, Air Force, Navy) is working on a classified secret-defense document. Once this one validated politically, the industrialists will join this team, then it will be the turn of the Germans, state and industrial. A "steering structure" will be put in place "before the end of the year, which should lead to the ordering of a" demonstrator ".
                https://www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-...tualise-157095

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                • gosnold
                  Rank 2 Registered User

                  #9
                  The French Chief of the Air staff and one of the heads of military procurement have publicly shared their views on the next-gen air combat system:
                  https://therestlesstechnophile.com/2...ombat-systems/

                  Today we ask ourselves a lot of questions: Is the complement of the combat aircraft a stealthy drone that is armed or not armed rather an ISR stealth drone in any case there is a stealth component. To respond to an almost perfect defense we have to separate the variables and thats why we call this a system of systems, its because we have to allocate different performances to each object. To penetrate the defenses you have to be stealthy, you have to be super fast and you have to be highly maneuvrable and we think that you can not have that in the same object anymore.
                  So what object will be stealthy, what object will still be supersonic and maneuvering, what object is going to be not supersonic but hypersonic because we have to go even faster? We think that what is hypersonic is the missile, and that the stealthy part is the drone that follows along, and that the piloted aircraft must remain very maneuvrable and supersonic, so there are different components. Collaborative combat is the fact that all this performance is separated between several objects

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                  • eagle1
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #10
                    Exellent high level conference...A must for anyone genuinely interested in the future of military aviation. Especially for the few journalists on this forum ;-) It seems that the approach will somewhat diverge with the F35. I liked the part on the F35 vs SCAF when they say the goal was to develop the techology beyhond the F35...

                    They tried to put everything in one platform (F35) wich has its compromises while for the SCAF operational needs will be allocated in different objects working in real time in colaborative combat as a "system of system" helped by IA to penetrate sofisticated air defence.

                    Last edited by eagle1; 22nd July 2018, 07:07.

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                    • JSR
                      JSR
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      #11
                      This thing has gone quiet .

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                      • topspeed
                        Get on uppah !

                        #12
                        If you fly that on one engine...can it be compensated somehow ?
                        If it looks good, it will fly good !
                        -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                        http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                        Comment

                        • eagle1
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #13
                          Not really, it is not because me or others don't post that the thing isn't moving forward. detail of workshare is expected soon:

                          https://www.journal-aviation.com/act...-prochainement

                          The Future Air Combat System (SCAF) program is expected to see its next breakthrough by the end of 2018. Army Minister Florence Parly met her German counterpart Ursula von der Leyen on the occasion of the 16th Summer University of Defense and they "naturally" evoked the Franco-German project at the official dinner. "What is very important is to have recognized the principle that France will be the leader on this program," the French minister said recently during a meeting with journalists. "This is very important, because we must not repeat the mistakes of the past," she continued, referring to the difficulties encountered in the A400M program, not to mention it. "The other point that we have clarified is the preservation of European strategic autonomy, trying to be the least dependent on possible American components, since we also have the need to export this aircraft. " In April 2018, France and Germany signed an agreement on the "macro-needs" of the two armies at the Berlin Air Show, the HLCORD (High Level Common Operational Requirement Document) defining the main military requirements of both countries. This first text was completed in June by a letter of intent. Next deadline, the contractualization with the industrialists. As Florence Parly said, "we have prepared this work by the end of 2017, by experimenting with a new method of work, which we hope to generalize later to all major weapons programs." It is in fact to "put together the staff of the armies and the Directorate General of Armament, so as not to waste time and not to multiply the successive iteration phases, but to put everyone around the table from the start. In order to structure the industrial sharing, the junction with the German partners will have to be done "as quickly as possible".
                          The round trips have started for a few months already between Saint-Cloud and Manching and "contrary to what we have read or heard, the relationship between Dassault Aviation and Airbus is excellent," says the minister, specifying, to reassure or to counterbalance the critics, that there is "a real enthusiasm to carry out this project". Carried by France and Germany, SCAF could in the future open up to other partners, Spain having already shown its interest, "others will certainly come". However, the political will is clear: it is above all to develop this program in a Franco-German, before being able to integrate other nations. The Minister of the Armies was clear on this subject: "It is a priority and urgent to agree clearly on a number of major features, great ambitions, which will constitute the architecture principles of this program" , "to avoid falling into well-known pitfalls and we have collectively paid the price".
                          Last edited by eagle1; 1st October 2018, 12:27.

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                          • JSR
                            JSR
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            #14
                            I am referring to political support. I haven't seen a single statement from Merkel (consider size of project if its a real 6 G fighter) about this project but she has plenty of statements about Battery production for electric cars which is just one element.

                            Comment

                            • Vans
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              #15
                              Tango posted a link that Japan rejected the US proposals for their next gen fighter. Now it seems more likely Japan will either cooperate with the French/German or UK proposals.

                              Comment

                              • JSR
                                JSR
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                #16
                                French if smart will realize soon that this project with Germany is unworkable.

                                Comment

                                • mrmalaya
                                  Generation 4.75+++

                                  #17
                                  As to the Japanese thing, it seems to depend on who writes the story. If it's a US article, then the Japanese have rejected all collaboration as being too expensive and are set on building their own fighter (i.e. "if they won't work with us, then they aren't going to want to work with any other countries...").

                                  If it's a domestic article or non-US report, the Japanese found the US too expensive and restrictive and are looking at other options.

                                  I would imagine there is a world of difference between hypothetical US projects and their workshare and security considerations for the Japanese and those of the Europeans (in a geographical sense).

                                  Comment

                                  • JSR
                                    JSR
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    #18
                                    French are already giving ultimatums to Germany for money. This 6G fighter is beyond the financial and technical ability.
                                    https://www.dw.com/de/le-maire-verla...lin/a-45745302
                                    Also a common budget was necessary. Otherwise threaten a dramatic consequence.

                                    Comment

                                    • Sintra
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      #19
                                      https://twitter.com/xaviervav/status...339123203?s=19

                                      sigpic

                                      Comment

                                      • Blue Apple
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        #20
                                        If you fly that on one engine...can it be compensated somehow ?
                                        Vector thrusting isn't the only way to control an aircraft without moving controls. In fact, it's fairly inefficient/useless for yawn or roll.

                                        Dassault has been working on flow control technologies for decades, they even test flew a fluidic aileron on their AVE drone testbed back in 2008 (results showed that at low speed the fluidic aileron had the same effect as a 30 deflection according to "An overview of flow control activities at Dassault Aviation over the last 25 years").

                                        Looking at the mock ups, it looks like they think the technology is mature enough to be put in a fighter plane.

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