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Franco-German next generation fighter

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  • halloweene
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2012
    • 4351

    remote carrier of scaf

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9LKB45W4AEXGP0.jpg

    Comment

    • halloweene
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2012
      • 4351

      SCAF from the rear

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9QSJVzXUAAN3Y7.jpg

      and front

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9QK92vXoAAYgLy.jpg

      Comment

      • J-20
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Jan 2018
        • 255

        is that a full scale model? looks kinda small, maybe 75 or 80% size?

        I like the look though

        reminds me of McDonalds Douggy JAST

        Click image for larger version

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        • halloweene
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2012
          • 4351

          its full scale, something more or less the size of a mirage 4000 (i will check if you wish). And i'd say it looks like YF23
          Physics are the same everywhere...

          Comment

          • J-20
            Rank 4 Registered User
            • Jan 2018
            • 255



            Click image for larger version

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            looks a lot nicer than that tailless design from last year

            Comment

            • Ozair
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Oct 2015
              • 822

              Originally posted by J-20 View Post


              looks a lot nicer than that tailless design from last year
              Will be interesting to see some actual details on the concept, like whether it will have an internal bay with enough size to carry a decent payload.

              Comment

              • J-20
                Rank 4 Registered User
                • Jan 2018
                • 255

                looks a lot bigger and normal sized from this angle! really sexy! hope they stick to this design.

                Click image for larger version

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                • eagle1
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 1125

                  Nice ! Ambitious design.

                  I am surprised by the size which seems big to me if in the mirage 4000 category. I thought it had to fit the CdG aircraft carrier which shoul have limites the mass.

                  More pictures here :

                  https://www.usinenouvelle.com/articl...t-scaf.N855350

                  The nose is huge...

                  Comment

                  • eagle1
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 1125

                    I like the view from the rear...Big engines, looks that it will be an F15/mirage4000 interceptor performer

                    Comment

                    • halloweene
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 4351

                      soemeone on internet ("the mamouth, i bet you now him) has calculated. Size is very close to 4000.

                      Comment

                      • Deino
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 4227

                        To admit - and I'm sure some won't like my opinion - I'm more impressed than by the Tempest.
                        ...

                        He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                        My working week and my Sunday rest,
                        My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                        I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                        The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                        Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                        Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                        For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                        -------------------------------------------------
                        W.H.Auden (1945)

                        Comment

                        • halloweene
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 4351

                          Nous nous sommes un peu dcus par la prsence de drives Deino.
                          PS as fa as your opinion is argumented and polite, why should we dislike
                          PS2there is an english speaking friends topic . Will love to see you argue with HK on it!

                          Comment

                          • RALL
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Aug 2017
                            • 204

                            Briliant design.

                            Comment

                            • Deino
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 4227

                              Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                              Nous nous sommes un peu dcus par la prsence de drives Deino.
                              PS as fa as your opinion is argumented and polite, why should we dislike
                              PS2there is an english speaking friends topic . Will love to see you argue with HK on it!
                              To admit I wanted to be as careful as possible since some here and in other forums seem to rate the Tepest as THE ONE and ONLY and so have nothing good to mention in regard to the new French/German-design! ... and I'm sure it will continue that way.

                              But since this is a French design for sure and we all know what handsome designs they make, why should it be different this time?

                              ...

                              He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                              My working week and my Sunday rest,
                              My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                              I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                              The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                              Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                              Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                              For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                              -------------------------------------------------
                              W.H.Auden (1945)

                              Comment

                              • FBW
                                FBW
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3295

                                PAS19 sees two next gen fighter mockups revealed, can't be anything but a win for defense aviation fans and interest will be high. SCAF, Tempest & TF-X mockups are all "lookers". Don't know if I'm getting old or simply practical, but cynical on the odds of two concurrent European projects coming to fruition. Yes, past experience suggests that it could happen, but both the Rafale and Eurofighter began in the era of large defense budgets.

                                The timeline is much tighter on FCAS (demonstrator by 2025? airframe possible, doubt engine will be ready, systems?). Meanwhile, the Tempest program needs to solidify partnerships. While I don't see the two programs merging (Dassault will see to that), collaboration on propulsion would increase the odds both programs survive.

                                Rolls-Royce has already competed in projects for and developed adaptive fan tech. I would like to see a path forward for collaboration on propulsion, software development, and certain systems like: life support, comms, thermal regulation (a BIG concern moving forward). It just makes sense, and would allow more European defense companies to survive into the 2030's. The projects could still have different platforms (H@ll, that's not even the most expensive nor riskiest part of an aircraft program anymore), platform specific sensors.

                                SCAF/FCAS engine partnership Safran/MTU was announced in Feb, Safran contract for the combustor & HPC designs run until 2024. Engine dev could delay the project considerably considering the timeline. A collaboration with RR could develop a family of adaptive cycle engines around a common core. The US started the ADVENT/AETP programs well over a decade ago for propulsion systems due in 2025 (phase I) and 2030 (phase II), Rolls-Royce had won contracts in phase I&II of previous VAATE/ADVENT- assuming that the technology is not proprietary, RR experience could be a huge advantage for timely development.

                                Cynicism is more like doubt on the TF-X, more due to RR already pulling out, BAE may follow suit, and if relations worsen with U.S., the alternate plan of a F110 derivative engine would be out as well.
                                Last edited by FBW; 17th June 2019, 15:03.

                                Comment

                                • Argo
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2006
                                  • 116

                                  They could fly the demonstrator(s) with a M88 derivative design. If the SCAF is scheduled to enter into service in the 2030s that leaves enought time to develop the new engine for series production aircraft.
                                  George Costanza: It became very clear to me sitting out there today that every decision I've made in my entire life has been wrong. My life is the complete opposite of everything I want it to be. Every instinct I have, in every aspect of life, be it something to wear, something to eat - it's all been wrong.

                                  Comment

                                  • XB-70
                                    Rank 4 Registered User
                                    • May 2018
                                    • 350

                                    The timeline is much tighter on FCAS (demonstrator by 2025? airframe possible, doubt engine will be ready, systems?). Meanwhile, the Tempest program needs to solidify partnerships. While I don't see the two programs merging (Dassault will see to that), collaboration on propulsion would increase the odds both programs survive.
                                    I wouldn't go on to say that the timeline is much tighter. Everything I hear suggests they are about the same - post 2035. A demonstrator just validates proof of concept. Like with Japan's Shinshin, it will run with a lot of existing equipment - engines, systems, etc. Like you though, I am skeptical that both European programs will make it to market.

                                    Engine dev could delay the project considerably considering the timeline.
                                    You bet. MTU is essentially just a contractor, and even Safran hasn't 'run the show' with engine development in a long while. They got their work cut out for them in both technology development and program management. If it wasn't for the fact that the Tempest is lacking partners I would be picking it to be the next gen European fighter just because I have a lot more faith in Rolls Royce. As it is...we'll see.

                                    Comment

                                    • JakobS
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Aug 2015
                                      • 155

                                      Sorry but I have to be honest, I really don't like the nose of that thing.

                                      Comment

                                      • J-20
                                        Rank 4 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2018
                                        • 255

                                        Originally posted by Deino View Post
                                        To admit - and I'm sure some won't like my opinion - I'm more impressed than by the Tempest.
                                        oh you like this baby

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                                        over this?

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                                        Comment

                                        • djcross
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2000
                                          • 5456

                                          Both have weapons bays of indeterminate capacity.

                                          One appears to have better vision over nose, better yaw stability, and less potential for aft fuselage/empennage surface stiffness/structural issues.

                                          Both are likely to share similar requirements/technological bases for LO signature, propulsion, sensors and communications.

                                          IMO, its a repeat of the Rafale vs Typhoon programs some 40 years later.

                                          Comment

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