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  • halloweene
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2012
    • 4304

    Very interesting data about NGF engine.

    Demo scheduled for 2027.

    Max temp 2100C (2376 K)

    vector thrust.

    adaptative cycle

    Hybrid.

    https://www.safran-group.com/fr/medi...-scaf-20190418


    Comment

    • eagle1
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Feb 2011
      • 1119

      On the same link on the M88 of the rafale :

      Le racteur du Rafale va bnficier des travaux mens pour le moteur de l'avion de combat du futur. C'est dans cette optique que la Direction Gnrale de l'Armement (DGA) a confi Safran un programme d'tudes amont, d'un montant de 115 millions d'euros sur 5 ans pour augmenter la pousse du moteur tout en amliorant sa dure de vie.
      Good news to see an increase of thrust for the M88 benefiting of technologies developed for the SCAF. So in 2024 we will have this upgraded M88. Another nice addition to the F4 standard.

      Comment

      • TomcatViP
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Nov 2011
        • 6001

        Instead of running after 1980's TVC tech they should do the jump directly to fluidic vectoring and distributed propulsion (outlets). Much more bang for the buck.

        Comment

        • JSR
          JSR
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Aug 2011
          • 4950

          Why M88 needs 5 years to implement upgrade. unless French uses computers from 1980s.

          Comment

          • halloweene
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2012
            • 4304


            Becuse there are many studies to be done. e.g. improving the vapor/liquid ratio of fuel etc.

            Comment

            • TomcatViP
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Nov 2011
              • 6001

              The remark is valid: wasn't the 88 improvement in thrusts already implemented in the Indian deal?

              Comment

              • halloweene
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 4304

                No.

                Comment

                • TomcatViP
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Nov 2011
                  • 6001

                  So the deal doesn't include any increased thrust for the M88?

                  Comment

                  • halloweene
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 4304

                    No. They are ok with present thrust. you know how it works. Cited thrust is made at sea level, 25C etc. Not always representative of engine behaviour in many different conditions. It seems that the Aux was modernized (rubis3) for high altitude, otherwise i'm not aware of any change made to the engine (apart from FADEC)

                    Comment

                    • Spitfire9
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 2807

                      France Cannot Risk Developing Future Fighter with Germany
                      http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...h-germany.html

                      Oh dear. I see the point: if Germany might block exports if the aircraft goes ahead, France has a problem.
                      Sum ergo cogito

                      Comment

                      • eagle1
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 1119

                        It is indeed a risk with Germany...There will always be a risk with whoever you partner with (pros & cons)...However that did not prevent Typhoon to be exported in some ME countries, so it should not be exagerated as well.

                        I think this issue has been "somewhat" tackled and taken into account before deciding to go on with Germany when talks were held at the highest political level. I rember it was a point of discussion between the two parties back then. I can't imagine France going ahead with Germany if they had not received a minimum of guarantees. So vigilant yes, but not overly pessimistic.

                        Comment

                        • halloweene
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 4304

                          That's what they tried to iron out in Aix la Chapelle treaty.

                          Comment

                          • Spitfire9
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 2807

                            Originally posted by eagle1 View Post
                            It is indeed a risk with Germany.
                            I guess it means that a contract for further supplies of Eurofighter to Saudi Arabia cannot be negotiated (if SA actually wanted to buy more). What would br the point of the supplier making a contract it could not honour?
                            Sum ergo cogito

                            Comment

                            • JSR
                              JSR
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 4950

                              Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                              That's what they tried to iron out in Aix la Chapelle treaty.
                              you are mistaken that this can be solved by any treaty. it will be increasing difficult to do any export business.






                              Comment

                              • RALL
                                Rank 4 Registered User
                                • Aug 2017
                                • 190

                                Spanish defense contractors are itching to get a piece of FCAS

                                https://www.defensenews.com/global/e..._medium=social

                                Comment

                                • halloweene
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2012
                                  • 4304

                                  Of course they are itching. Now...,(of info, we may have a full scale kit of FCAS NGF at le Bourget. No clue)
                                  Last edited by halloweene; 4th June 2019, 22:21.

                                  Comment

                                  • TomcatViP
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Nov 2011
                                    • 6001

                                    Given that the MICA NG will still rely on bulky fins well after the NGF enters service, I wonder what kind of missile that aircraft will carry. Stealth and internal carriage of weapons dictates new aerodynamics (at least). That would have been the time to launch such studies to have a missile ready for that plane.

                                    I am amazed by the launch of the Miica NG program today, something that could have been relevant a decade ago... but now?
                                    Last edited by TomcatViP; 8th June 2019, 21:15.

                                    Comment

                                    • halloweene
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2012
                                      • 4304

                                      Well,, mica is already by far superior to AIM9 so why not modernize it to maintain its advance? And as by all evidence you have only very partial information about mica ng, i did expect such a comment. FCAS is a multi level program including A330 MRTT and Rafale btw. (and mica NG). And Mica NG will be proressively introduced into forces, with Rafale F4 able to use all its capabilities.
                                      Last edited by halloweene; 9th June 2019, 09:59.

                                      Comment

                                      • TomcatViP
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Nov 2011
                                        • 6001

                                        A new missile that will be fully compatible with new Stealth requirements will invariably be compatible with the Rafale. It does not make much sense to finance a new missile just for the older design. However fantastic it is in your say, Mica aerodynamic configuration is a dead end per se.
                                        Last edited by TomcatViP; 9th June 2019, 13:43.

                                        Comment

                                        • stealthflanker
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2015
                                          • 1006

                                          Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                          A new missile that will be fully compatible with new Stealth requirements will invariably be compatible with the Rafale. It does not make much sense to finance a new missile just for the older design. However fantastic it is in your say, Mica aerodynamic configuration is a dead end per se.
                                          are you serious ?

                                          Comment

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