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Su-57 News and Discussion -version_we_lost_count!-

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  • XB-70
    Rank 3 Registered User
    • May 2018
    • 136

    They are all somewhat different, and some are very different. Very generally speaking...
    A traditional radar system uses radio waves for scanning. It uses electronic means to mix various waveforms to do the necessary upconversion, downconversion, filtering, modulation and such.
    ROFAR also uses radio waves for scanning. But it generates them through optical methods. A laser is used to excite the "photonic" (optical) system to generate the needed RF signals for scanning. All upconversion, downconverison, filtering, and modulation is done optically.
    LIDAR uses the laser directly for scanning. Amplification, filtering, and such is all done optically. (Both LIDAR and ROFAR may use a final electronic filter in between the photodiode receiver and the ADC)
    A quantum radar doesn't use electromagnetic energy at all; it uses entangled particles instead.

    Comment

    • Dr.Snufflebug
      Boggleboople snufflebug
      • Aug 2012
      • 489

      Here's another nice one from Savitsky, T-50 prototype 509:

      Click image for larger version

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      sigpic

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      • stealthflanker
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Sep 2015
        • 810

        now im rooting for release of R-37 from the weapon bay.

        Comment

        • FalconDude
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Sep 2010
          • 1167

          This thread is a bit barren as of late. Have we no news from any russian sites regarding our favorite russian plane?

          Comment

          • panzerfeist1
            Rank 3 Registered User
            • Feb 2018
            • 141

            http://tass.com/defense/1039482

            "MOSCOW, January 11. /TASS/. A new composite material with enhanced radar wave absorbing properties was used to make the cockpit canopy of the most advanced Sukhoi Su-57 multirole fighter jet and the Tupolev Tu-160 strategic missile-carrying bomber, Russias state hi-tech corporation Rostec told TASS on Friday.

            The innovative glass coating has been developed by specialists of the Obninsk-based Technologiya R&D Enterprise (part of RT Chemcomposite Group within Rostec).

            "It doubles radar wave absorption and reduces the aircraft cockpits radar signature by 30% Currently, the coating is applied to the canopy of T-50 (Su-57 aircraft since August 2017), Su-30, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-29K and Tu-160 planes," Rostec said.

            The coating is made of metal oxide layers 70-90 nm thick. In addition to reducing visibility to enemy radars, it protects the pilot during the flight from the impact of ultraviolet, thermal and other negative factors, Rostec stressed.






            "The coating weakens the thermal component of solar radiation by more than three times while the integral transmittance index in the visible range makes up no less than 65% and the impact of the ultraviolet component drops by more than 4-6 times," the hi-tech corporation said.

            As Rostec Industrial Director for the Cluster of Conventional Armament, Ammunition and Special Chemistry Sergei Abramov said earlier, this innovation actually has no weak points: its application helps halve the weight of the cockpits glass canopy and increase impact resistance and radar wave absorption from 40% to 80%"


            "

            Comment

            • archangelski
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jul 2013
              • 2377

              Small modification under the left intake :

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              • TomcatViP
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Nov 2011
                • 5643

                Probably a meshed grid to replace to old fashioned vent ( just like the famous ones on the J20).

                Comment

                • Trident
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • May 2004
                  • 3944

                  Yup, the more recent prototypes were thus equipped from the start.
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • Scooter
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 11757

                    Honestly, doubt Russia will ever produce the Su-57 in any real numbers. My guess is they will be "forced" to adapt the J-31 and produce it under license from China.
                    F-35 Lightning II

                    Comment

                    • blackwood
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 297

                      I don't think they will buy the J-31, even the Chinese air force doesn't like it, hey but the F-35's in with a chance.

                      Comment

                      • LMFS
                        Rank 3 Registered User
                        • Feb 2018
                        • 198

                        Yeah, by the fears US is showing with Turkey, you would say the Turks plan to sell the F-35 to Russia xD

                        @Scooter: you mean not real numbers like US and the F-22? I can understand western media dismissing the Su-57 for PR reasons, but that we believe all the BS told about the plane is too much. Russia has no alternative and cannot keep flying Flankers until the end of time. They have already said they plan to include 6G systems into the plane, so I would think they would like to know more about real features and schedule of PCA/NGAD and the other 6G efforts before starting production in numbers of Su-57, rather than thinking of cancelling it. Add to it the huge investment in the plane + excellent capabilities + time needed to finish 2nd stage engine and you will see it will take some years but will be fielded. The bit about the J-31 is funny trolling but that's it, honestly no possible comparison between both planes and no reason for Russia to go that way.

                        Comment

                        • XB-70
                          Rank 3 Registered User
                          • May 2018
                          • 136

                          My guess is they will be "forced" to adapt the J-31 and produce it under license from China.
                          Why do you say that? It will take a lot less time to finish the Su-57 than it would to complete the J-31 program and develop a reliable engine to power it. Keep in mind that the 2000-2015 era engines like the Ws-10 and Ws13 were made because China had to learn how to do it. But you do not want to base the future of your leading aviation combat platform off of that technology! Supposedly, China will eventually produce a new engine (Ws-19) for the J-31. I have no idea how long that will take but it is not flying yet and Izdeliye 30 is.

                          Comment

                          • Scooter
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 11757

                            blackwood

                            I don't think they will buy the J-31, even the Chinese air force doesn't like it, hey but the F-35's in with a chance.
                            Absurd the J-31 (FC-31) will be the cornerstone of the PLAAF and PLAN for decades to come....

                            QUOTE: Shenyang independently developed the FC-31 in the hope of selling it to the Chinese military or foreign air arms. That has changed. "The FC-31 is no longer export-oriented, and is destined for domestic military service," Global Times claimed.

                            https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...76G27LPI2VzpEo


                            F-35 Lightning II

                            Comment

                            • Scooter
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 11757

                              XB-70

                              Why do you say that? It will take a lot less time to finish the Su-57 than it would to complete the J-31 program and develop a reliable engine to power it. Keep in mind that the 2000-2015 era engines like the Ws-10 and Ws13 were made because China had to learn how to do it. But you do not want to base the future of your leading aviation combat platform off of that technology! Supposedly, China will eventually produce a new engine (Ws-19) for the J-31. I have no idea how long that will take but it is not flying yet and Izdeliye 30 is.


                              Because the development of the Su-57 has not been successful and it's not likely to go into full scale production or at very least not in large numbers. If, it ever does??? What planet have you been on for the last 12 months??? This in turn means Russia will have no Stealth Fighter. Especially, a Stealthy 5th Generation Strike Fighter in the class of the F-35. Which, would be the workhorse of any major Air Force. So, considering it takes a good 20 years maybe more to develop and put into production a new fighter. I ask you what is Russia to do???


                              It sure can't buy the KFX, TFX, F-35, or likely even the AMCA.


                              This in turn really only leaves the Chinese J-20 and/or J-31. Yet, in my opinion the latter is far more promising. It's also likely much cheaper than the J-20 and will be available in Land Based and Naval Based Variants. (The latter would be needed for the Admiral Kuznetsov Aircraft Carrier!) It also already uses the fairly reliable Russian RD-93. Which, Russia would want to use over any Chinese variant. Regardless, how good they may or may not be....

                              Speaking of Chinese Engines the J-31 is said to use the WS-13 from the JF-17. With a more powerful version (WS-13E) currently in development.


                              To be honest the Su-57 is really just a Semi-Stealthy Flanker at best. So, Russia is never going to be able to resolve the basic flaws in the design. So, it will be forced to "move on". If, it has any hope of keeping up with China and the West. (US) In my "opinion" Russia made a "COLOSSAL" mistake. When it decided to develop the PAK-FA over the Mikoyan LMFS! The latter could have been produced in good numbers and likely would have at least a modest export market. Yet, the damage is done and no turning back now.....




                              F-35 Lightning II

                              Comment

                              • Scooter
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 11757

                                LMFS


                                Yeah, by the fears US is showing with Turkey, you would say the Turks plan to sell the F-35 to Russia xD

                                @Scooter: you mean not real numbers like US and the F-22? I can understand western media dismissing the Su-57 for PR reasons, but that we believe all the BS told about the plane is too much. Russia has no alternative and cannot keep flying Flankers until the end of time. They have already said they plan to include 6G systems into the plane, so I would think they would like to know more about real features and schedule of PCA/NGAD and the other 6G efforts before starting production in numbers of Su-57, rather than thinking of cancelling it. Add to it the huge investment in the plane + excellent capabilities + time needed to finish 2nd stage engine and you will see it will take some years but will be fielded. The bit about the J-31 is funny trolling but that's it, honestly no possible comparison between both planes and no reason for Russia to go that way.
                                I have never "said" that Turkey would sell the F-35 to Russia. Nor, am I concern that they would do so....


                                As for the Su-57 it's pretty much dead if some care to admit it or not. So, while Russia will build a few more prototypes or developmental test aircraft. The project will never become a mature Fighter Program for frontline service. Yet, if some want to live in the glory of the days of the former Soviet Union. (Fantasy World) Who am I to stop them....
                                F-35 Lightning II

                                Comment

                                • blackwood
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2011
                                  • 297

                                  I hope your around for many years to come, healthy and happy.
                                  Let's see in 2025-2030 how things stand, time will tell, speculation never tells, I've seen so many people with opinions only to see history prove people wrong

                                  Comment

                                  • Scooter
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 11757

                                    blackwood


                                    I hope your around for many years to come, healthy and happy.
                                    Let's see in 2025-2030 how things stand, time will tell, speculation never tells, I've seen so many people with opinions only to see history prove people wrong

                                    Actually, my record is pretty good on such prediction. So, I'll be here.....
                                    F-35 Lightning II

                                    Comment

                                    • LMFS
                                      Rank 3 Registered User
                                      • Feb 2018
                                      • 198

                                      @Scooter:

                                      I am really puzzled about how you and other people determine Su-57 to be a failed development. I tend to see its design philosophy way better than both US 5G fighters and actually quite close to what is being proposed for 6G platforms in terms of long range, AI support, reduced size of keels, smart skins and capability for big internal weapons. Given there are no official technical characteristics and RCS values are stated to be in the ball park of F-22, how do you know it is little more than a Flanker? With no official prices or numbers and given the program continues further without relevant changes, what moves you to say it is dead??

                                      As to Russia buying FC-31as their top fighter, well this would be nothing short of amazing. They don't buy foreign hardware in general, much less critical one, much less to give up on aerospace industry and much less to others like Chinese, which are still using their engines and buying their planes like Su-35. You really need to be expecting the full collapse of Russia if you think this will happen.

                                      Comment

                                      • Scooter
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 11757

                                        LMFS

                                        @Scooter:

                                        I am really puzzled about how you and other people determine Su-57 to be a failed development. I tend to see its design philosophy way better than both US 5G fighters and actually quite close to what is being proposed for 6G platforms in terms of long range, AI support, reduced size of keels, smart skins and capability for big internal weapons. Given there are no official technical characteristics and RCS values are stated to be in the ball park of F-22, how do you know it is little more than a Flanker? With no official prices or numbers and given the program continues further without relevant changes, what moves you to say it is dead??
                                        Countless reasons actually.....India had considerable access and left the PAK-FA/FGFA Program like a "Hot Potato". (speaks volumes) In addition many are overlooking the "obvious". First, Russia has little experience with Stealth Designs. While, the US has decades of experience. (SR-71, F-117, Have Blue, B-2, F-22, F-35, etc. etc. etc.) Second, Russia was generally considered behind the US (West) is Fighter Design before the end of the Cold War. Especially, in the field of Stealth, Avionics, and Weapons. Third, after the end of the Cold War Russia had no money for over a decade for Research and Development. While, loosing many of her best Designers, Engineers, and Scientists!

                                        So, now we are to believe Russia with very little budget could seriously challenge the US in Stealth Fighter Design.....LOL


                                        As to Russia buying FC-31as their top fighter, well this would be nothing short of amazing. They don't buy foreign hardware in general, much less critical one, much less to give up on aerospace industry and much less to others like Chinese, which are still using their engines and buying their planes like Su-35. You really need to be expecting the full collapse of Russia if you think this will happen.

                                        Hardly amazing at all. As Russia has used and stolen other nations designs for decades. Honestly, since the beginning of their Aviation Programs. Nonetheless, my point is Russia simply has "no choice". Unless it is going accept being a minor player on the world stage. As without a credible Air Force that is exactly what they would become.....(and they're running out of time)
                                        F-35 Lightning II

                                        Comment

                                        • Scooter
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2000
                                          • 11757

                                          Oh, and the Russian Version of the J-31 could easily have RD-93's. Plus, Russian Avionics and Weapons. This would make it far easier to sell to the public. As they could spin it as really "Russian" or at very least a joint Chinese/Russian Project. Of course does China really want or need to help Russia out of the hole they dug for themselves??? That is the real question???


                                          Yet, again what choice do they really have....
                                          F-35 Lightning II

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