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    Future Franco-German MPA

    Germany, France eyeing joint development of new maritime patrol aircraft

    e new aircraft is set to replace Germany’s P-3C Orion aircraft and France’s Breguet Atlantique 2 which are currently in service.
    The new aircraft is to be ready to enter service by the time its predecessors start retiring. Both French and German MPAs are scheduled to retire in the early 2030s.
    Fascinating perspectives. Given that Germany discarded the Atlantic for a fleet of leased P-3 and that French politicians are grown to enter in a catatonic state at the single mention of LM, it should be expected that the future MPA would be built on a new platform. But what could it be?


    My favorite guess today would be toward a Q400 derivative (Airbus bought Bombardier and this airplane has much better performances to fulfill the role than the sluggish ATR-72 does).
    If a jet, the question remains open. As the possibility of a heavy specific UCAV, what would lead to some tremendous challenges and beyond opportunities for both national industry.

    Click image for larger version

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    (Sourced from the News thread - posted by Tango III)
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 6th April 2018, 21:57.

    #2
    What could it be?
    A320

    https://airlinerwatch.com/airbus-con...on-of-a320neo/
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

    Comment


      #3
      i also think an Airbus A320/319neo is the likely platform, they have stated that the new aircraft is idealy suited for the role.
      if Airbus wants to compete with boeing, it will have to develop a better MPA, as for certain roles, theyre C295-MPA falls a little short, especialy for countries with a larger coastline, like France.
      40squadron.webs.com

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        #4
        Marine life will enjoy the quieter design base.
        Go Huskers!

        Comment


          #5
          And present C295-MPA would be a huge capability step back as compared two modernized ATL2.

          Comment


            #6
            The best A400M. turboprop for low altitude flying and short field performance. the range of A320 will be too low and will need long runway once equipment is installed.

            Comment


              #7

              My favorite guess today would be toward a Q400 derivative (Airbus bought Bombardier and this airplane has much better performances to fulfill the role than the sluggish ATR-72 does).
              Airbus haven't bought Bombardier. The Q400 is not associated with the Airbus-Bombardier-Quebec C-Series venture. There have been a few integrators offering their systems on an MPA variant ( SAAB, L3 and IAI ) but no-one has shown interest as yet. And frankly with Bombardier's constant state of semi-failure no-one knows if the Q400 will even be available by 2030.

              I don't see the A400M being a contender, traditionally MPA conversions of transporters have sold in single-digit quantities. They're just the wrong shape for a dozen crew at low-level.

              To me it would be logical to go in with Japan on the P-1 instead of splitting the non-P-8 market even smaller, but in the end it'll probably be something boring based on the A320 or C-Series.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Cherry Ripe View Post
                To me it would be logical to go in with Japan on the P-1 instead of splitting the non-P-8 market even smaller, but in the end it'll probably be something boring based on the A320 or C-Series.
                This.
                sigpic

                Comment


                  #9
                  the range of A320 will be too low and will need long runway once equipment is installed.
                  a standard A320 yes, but not one equiped with additional fuel tanks like the ACJ320 series, witch gives the aircraft a transatlantic range.
                  STOL requirements these days are not a requirement, just look at the Boeing P-8/737.
                  40squadron.webs.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have looked at P-8 about 7000km range but no mention what flight altitude and how much fuel used. US has fracked Oil and willing to tolerate large trade deficits so the systems are reflection of it. EU has its own limitations so it simply cannot follow similar systems development and sustainment.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Don't be so certain on that, when the Lockheed P-7 LRAACA was cancelled leaving the USN running the P-3 on longer and forcing the UK to seek an alternative replacement for the Nimrod MR2 British Aerospace conducted a study of what would be the most suitable airframe to act as the basis for a new MPA. Their conclusion was the still in early development FLA which would become the A400M. As the the FLA was many years away from service they were forced to seek an alternative leading us down the path to the Nimrod 2000/MRA4 debacle. My personal opinion is they should have partnered with Boeing and put forward a solution based upon the 757, Boeing had already conducted some basic development work for the LRAACA program and the aircraft more than met range and payload requirements.

                      http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers...i_history.html

                      Anyway all history now, to be honest the P-8a is pretty much becoming the clear choice as a P-3 replacement but if France an Germany really want to go it alone it is a far less risky proposition now. The FITS system is mature and many of the sensors are available off the shelf if you wanted to make an A320 based MPA.
                      Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I am not sure that Germany would need a Jet. Given that the north sea is their main area of operation, a low to medium cruise altitude could be suitable. There is hence room for a turboprop with low transit time.

                        But Cherry Ripe is right. I would like to see the 4 engined, frwd centered P1 in service too. I won't trust an A320 for that mission (airframe wise).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I just don't see the P1 ever getting an export sale, it is expensive with an entirely Japanese-centric weapons and systems fit that is not compatible with the majority of weapons on the market without expensive integration.

                          If a country is in the market for a long range MPA and is friendly with the US the P-8 is the obvious choice, most countries don't need that and there are plenty of twin engine turbo prop MPA available to buy.

                          If France and Germany are in the market for that class of MPA then I am hard pressed to see why they shouldn't just buy the P-8 and be done with it.
                          Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The A320neo is the base, but there is no reason to judge the final design based upon the civilian form. First off, it's going to trade creature comforts found in an airliner for equipment to fulfill its mission.

                            The P-1 is a beautiful jet. But the P-8 is far more cost-effective. The goal of keeping work at home is self defeating in this case. It would be better for their economy to settle on P-8 over a new build based on A320neo no matter how great the latter airframe could be with enough money sunk into it. That's money basically wasted.
                            Last edited by MadRat; 9th April 2018, 02:34.
                            Go Huskers!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              With Trump trade behaviour...French and Germany will go with Airbus..Airbus already shown their concept for A-320 MPA. Why should French and Germany buy Boeing, when Airbus alternative can easily developed..Thus is French and Germany we are talking about, not UK.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Name on next generation MPA platform that was ever easy. There is your answer.
                                Go Huskers!

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Next French and German MPA will be Boeing P8.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I could understand if the P-8 hardware, suite and sensors were taken out and installed into an Airbus A320.. but why should Germany and France settle for B737 based airframes is beyond me..

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Because the Germans and French don't have unlimited funds to develop a MPA and also a new fighter aircraft. The new fighter program will be a black hole sucking down a huge percentage of available RnD for the next decade. Other programs will suffer and A320 MPA is an entire program built to duplicate P8 for a plane that a best has few hundred export orders if it succeeds. It will also be a decade minimum before it is ready and will suffer by being late to market versus P8.

                                      If they build an A320 MPA it really indicates that they wont be developing a new fighter aircraft.
                                      Last edited by Siddar; 9th April 2018, 12:09.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Unlikely to be a 320, and even more a P-8 base platform, IMHO.

                                        I bet on a Falcon platform, as it was just selected to be the next SIGINT aircraft. FAF is not Indian airforce, it is not stupid (nor has enough money to throw overboard) to have hundreds of different platforms while a single one (or a closely related one) to fill various roles.

                                        ..and frankly I hardly see Airbus Military/DS get any large, risk-prone project (or its lead) anytime soon.
                                        Last edited by EC 5/25 Corsair; 9th April 2018, 15:19.

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