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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • Kovy
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Apr 2004
    • 1465

    The antenna for Spectra is at the back if I'm not mistaken, this is something more akin to a bottle top at the front of the DDM-NG bar and isn't on all Ms or all Rafales. I'll show a picture or you'll probably think I'm mad.
    This is a forward looking camera only mounted on test bench aircrafts (here on the B301)
    The Rafale international forum :
    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

    Rafale news blog :
    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

    Comment

    • Kovy
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Apr 2004
      • 1465

      Will those new Rafale be F4.2?
      Yes.

      AFAIK, the Rafale B358 will be the last French F3 aircraft to be delivered (next month).
      The 28 remaining French Rafale of the tranche 4 to be delivered after the B358 will be F4.2 aircrafts out of the assembly line, even if they won't have all the F4.2 features immediatly. They will get them step by step between 2022 and 2025)
      The F4.1 standard is supposed to be a software upgrade for all the F3 Rafale before the B358.

      The main difference between F4.2 aircrafts and F3 retrofited to F4.1 aircrafts, is the hardware : The F4.2 will get the new GaN antenna, new OSF IR channel, HMD, cockpit updates...)
      The Rafale international forum :
      http://rafale.freeforums.org/

      Rafale news blog :
      http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • J-20
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Jan 2018
        • 187

        Hi Kovy,

        have you done any new awesome photoshops lately?

        Comment

        • halloweene
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2012
          • 4342

          This site claims the Rafale costs $115 Million each without initial spares, weapons, ect...
          Rofl. Ajai Shukla. Permanent Rafale basher since he was denied a flight by DAssault. Funny.

          Comment

          • halloweene
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2012
            • 4342

            According to "La Tribune", USA would be trying to block Rafale sales in Egypt due to a US component into SCALP missile.

            Comment

            • bring_it_on
              2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
              • Jun 2004
              • 12480

              Wouldn't they try to block SCALP sale (assuming this is true)?
              Old radar types never die; they just phased array

              Comment

              • halloweene
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 4342

                Apparently (i had the same info end of december) yes, they try to block SCALP sales, but Egypt want Rafale WITH Scalp.

                Sry forgot the link

                https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises...nt-768856.html

                Comment

                • bring_it_on
                  2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 12480

                  The US may have issues with its equipment being exported on board a missile. Saying "USA would be trying to block Rafale sales in Egypt" is rather disingenuous imho.
                  Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                  Comment

                  • halloweene
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 4342

                    Did you read the article?
                    Apart from that it woudn't be first time USA behave in such a way (see UAE satellites...)

                    Comment

                    • FBW
                      FBW
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3295

                      Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                      Did you read the article?
                      Apart from that it woudn't be first time USA behave in such a way (see UAE satellites...)
                      The nerve.... after all France was bullied into signing the MTCR. Or wait, they were willing signatories until they wanted to export cruise missiles, I forget.

                      Im sure its in everyones interest to sell cruise missiles to a country that recently went through several government upheavals. Maybe throw in a few ICBMs and watch Rafale sales go through the roof.

                      Comment

                      • bring_it_on
                        2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 12480

                        Did you read the article?
                        Apart from that it woudn't be first time USA behave in such a way (see UAE satellites...)
                        You mean the US exercising its veto authority over export of technology it owns? Why wouldn't it if it feels that this is in its best interest? Does France not do that, or do the French not expect its government to look out for its own National interest when it involves sanction of arms sales, a known lever of NatSec policy?

                        "In view of the concerns of the Chinese side, the French Government has undertaken not to authorize any French enterprises to participate in the arming of Taiwan," a joint statement said. https://goo.gl/u2s515

                        Last edited by bring_it_on; 16th February 2018, 21:55.
                        Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                        Comment

                        • Yama
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Feb 2012
                          • 633

                          Really, given the way new Egyptian regime is shaping up, I can't fault US at all if they're uncomfortable about selling them missiles.

                          Comment

                          • FBW
                            FBW
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3295

                            Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                            Did you read the article?
                            Apart from that it woudn't be first time USA behave in such a way)
                            What is truly amusing would be a Dassault executive in India having to explain a situation similar to Taiwan’s “no strings attached” experience with French combat aircraft when tensions with China ramp up.
                            “Well, we planned to upgrade those Rafale... soon, Twice the cost for parts than US aircraft? Ummmmm...”

                            No need for Gallic fierte from French posters, I think the Rafale was an excellent choice for India, only giving Hallow a bit of his own constant misrepresentations and trolling.
                            Last edited by FBW; 17th February 2018, 01:57.

                            Comment

                            • J-20
                              Rank 4 Registered User
                              • Jan 2018
                              • 187

                              yep I Agree with our tasty Fresh Burger Whopper
                              its really all about picking which export is the lesser evil for you

                              US - tight controls over spares/upgrades/stock
                              French - more flexible but will charge you twice as much as the Americans. Unless your enemy has more money
                              Swedes/Germans - you must follow their human rights philosophies or no spares
                              Russians - no spares to give, no cares to give
                              Chinese - spares made in China

                              Comment

                              • Vnomad
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • May 2011
                                • 2859

                                Originally posted by CastleBravo
                                This site claims the Rafale costs $115 Million each without initial spares, weapons, ect...
                                Ajai Shukla's just repeating what was widely reported at the time of the Rafale deal. The "bare-bones" cost to India i.e. the flyaway cost was -

                                Rafale C: €91.7 mil ($114 mil)
                                Rafale B: €94 mil ($117 mil)

                                ____________________________________

                                Deal's breakdown

                                Aircraft: €3,420 mil
                                Weapons: €710 mil
                                Customization; ~€1,700 mil
                                Support & Spares: ~€1,800 mil
                                PBL: €353 mil

                                Total: €7,870 mil
                                Last edited by Vnomad; 17th February 2018, 03:05.

                                Comment

                                • TomcatViP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 6057

                                  Really, given the way new Egyptian regime is shaping up, I can't fault US at all if they're uncomfortable about selling them missiles.
                                  And by the way, they don't need more Rafale and SCALP cruise missile. They need Scorpions and alike (not something that could not have been put together in a short time by Dassault... or Airbus (?)).


                                  @VNomad: mind that we came around this value at the time by ourselves pretty easily. The great (yet unanswered question) already was what made for the other 100M$)?
                                  Last edited by TomcatViP; 17th February 2018, 07:41.

                                  Comment

                                  • Nicolas10
                                    Senior Member
                                    • May 2005
                                    • 4523

                                    The nerve.... after all France was bullied into signing the MTCR. Or wait, they were willing signatories until they wanted to export cruise missiles, I forget.

                                    Im sure its in everyones interest to sell cruise missiles to a country that recently went through several government upheavals. Maybe throw in a few ICBMs and watch Rafale sales go through the roof.
                                    A US dude (I just typoed IS instead of US) giving moral lessons about the middle east.

                                    Thanks for the laugh!

                                    BTW if true WTF were they thinking putting some US components in the Scalp?

                                    Nic
                                    Last edited by Nicolas10; 17th February 2018, 10:06.

                                    Comment

                                    • halloweene
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2012
                                      • 4342

                                      [QUOTE]You mean the US exercising its veto authority over export of technology it owns? Why wouldn't it if it feels that this is in its best interest? Does France not do that, or do the French not expect its government to look out for its own National interest when it involves sanction of arms sales, a known lever of NatSec policy? [QUOTE]

                                      Is that a joke? You already did the same joke on Eagle Eye contract lost by LM, trying to block it on completely unsensitive parts... For commercial reasons. US are doing the same, nothing to do with morality, US do not have any as far as business is concerned, specially in Middle East... Really..; US trying to lecture europeans about behabiour in middle east. Would be laughable if it was irony but...

                                      Would you agree if France blocked some parts of F-35 AFTER an export market is signed? (there ares, tyres, obogs parts, many cabling, batteries...) .Or if Thales blocked HMDS due to obvious VALID patent infringement?

                                      Comment

                                      • bring_it_on
                                        2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
                                        • Jun 2004
                                        • 12480

                                        Would you agree if France blocked some parts of F-35 AFTER an export market is signed? (there ares, tyres, obogs parts, many cabling, batteries...) .Or if Thales blocked HMDS due to obvious VALID patent infringement?
                                        Yes I would agree. If France wanted to do that then I would have no problem with it since that is France's right to control to whom and where technology part of its NatSec apparatus is sold just like the US or any other country. When you choose to bring in foreign companies into your supply chain you do expose yourself to this and at times it can become a problem that you simply have to find workarounds and execute and find solutions with alternative vendors.
                                        Last edited by bring_it_on; 17th February 2018, 14:52.
                                        Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                                        Comment

                                        • halloweene
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2012
                                          • 4342

                                          Honestly Bio, i will answer you when (if it is revealed) one will know which parts are involved (really sensitive or just pretext).
                                          Last edited by halloweene; 17th February 2018, 14:56.

                                          Comment

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