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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • SpudmanWP
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2009
    • 5292

    If they buy the F-35 then they will likely have access to the same network as the US since they opened it up to JSF partners in 2015.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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    • halloweene
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2012
      • 4351

      Originally posted by djcross View Post
      Do Switzerland or Finland have access to a secure satellite communication system with Ka or W band transponders? If not, then SATCOM doesn't help.
      Dunno, but ot Syracuse IV yes. Part of the package. You know, all these independence maniacs we are in Europe....

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      • halloweene
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2012
        • 4351

        just for the pleasure of eyes.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC5N...zFiGma-rieH_qI
         

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        • halloweene
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2012
          • 4351

          Some details about SCAF (in fact future combat system because not only ait). The idea is to create a cloud with infos from every vector (including sergeants on the ground, vehicles etc.) in which each unit can ask for the information they need. The difficulty is in the amount of data to sort and that is where AI is so important. Guess quite similar to some joint US projects. It already exists with new ground vehicles inside "scorpion" project.

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          • halloweene
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2012
            • 4351

            Demo commented by pilot. Some intersting data : during first part of the demo (with a lot of fuel), 360 at 450 Kts, 9 to 9.5g. During the second part, squared (???) loop, up to 10.5g. Still the issues typical to Le Bourget, demo space is small due to Paris and CDG airport.
            https://www.dassault-aviation.tv/the...n-1810-en.html

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            • halloweene
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2012
              • 4351

              Cost of Rafale maintenance (all versions mixed) : 4.15 M / plane /year

              https://www.capital.fr/economie-poli...le-1343688?amp
              Last edited by halloweene; 3rd July 2019, 09:49.

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              • TooCool_12f
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2009
                • 3321

                Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                Cost of Rafale maintenance (all versions mixed) : 4.15 M / plane /year

                https://www.capital.fr/economie-poli...le-1343688?amp
                it's crazy that nobody explained to the so-called journalist that such a number has zero meaning... 4.15M for what use? how many hours? if it flew 10 hours on average, the cost is huge.. if it flew 1000 hours for that much, its a bargain... how many hours have all the Rafales flown in 2018?

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                • Kovy
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 1465

                  Originally posted by TooCool_12f View Post
                  it's crazy that nobody explained to the so-called journalist that such a number has zero meaning... 4.15M for what use? how many hours? if it flew 10 hours on average, the cost is huge.. if it flew 1000 hours for that much, its a bargain... how many hours have all the Rafales flown in 2018?
                  In 2016 it was reported by the French air Force that a Rafale was flying (in average) 275 hours/year
                  That would mean that the cost of each flight hour is about 15,000 Euros, which is consistent with what we usually read.
                  The Rafale international forum :
                  http://rafale.freeforums.org/

                  Rafale news blog :
                  http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

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                  • SpudmanWP
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 5292

                    You also have to consider what is included as it can be as little as "just gas" to every item from gas, parts, pilot's wages, his lodging, future upgrades, etc.

                    Click image for larger version

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                    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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                    • TooCool_12f
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 3321

                      Originally posted by Kovy View Post

                      In 2016 it was reported by the French air Force that a Rafale was flying (in average) 275 hours/year
                      That would mean that the cost of each flight hour is about 15,000 Euros, which is consistent with what we usually read.
                      275 hours per plane in 2016, but the cost we see here is in 2018... we can imagine that the number of flying hours is similar, but it is said nowhere

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                      • Kovy
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 1465

                        Originally posted by TooCool_12f View Post

                        275 hours per plane in 2016, but the cost we see here is in 2018... we can imagine that the number of flying hours is similar, but it is said nowhere
                        Well acccording to the same source, it was 250 hrs in 2015
                        The MCO cost for 2015 was 343.9 millions for 97 Rafale B/C
                        That would be 14,200 Euros per flight hour.

                        Keeping the same 250 hrs base for 2014 and 2013, I find about 10,000 Euros per flight hours.
                        This 40% increase after 2014 would make sense as it coincides with the begining of Chammal operation in Irak (starting Septembre 2014)
                        Last edited by Kovy; 11th July 2019, 00:15.
                        The Rafale international forum :
                        http://rafale.freeforums.org/

                        Rafale news blog :
                        http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

                        Comment

                        • TomcatViP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 6109

                          The problem that I see is that the 275hr are averaged among the rate of available airframe. Let's say that 50% are available (what is somewhat what it is for real), each of those 275hr are spread among 2 Rafale. Hence you have to multiply 137.5hr per 97 airframe and use that to divide the MCO budget.
                          I am really sorry, but It should be something around 30k....
                          Last edited by TomcatViP; 11th July 2019, 21:14.

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                          • OPIT
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Aug 2005
                            • 901

                            Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                            The problem that I see (...)
                            The problem is you don't know what you're talking about, as usual.

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                            • TomcatViP
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2011
                              • 6109

                              But how you my dear, would know what I am taking that I don't know?

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                              • TooCool_12f
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Dec 2009
                                • 3321

                                the average is not spread among the "50% available", it is the average for the entire fleet...

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                                • OPIT
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Aug 2005
                                  • 901

                                  Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                  But how you my dear, would know what I am taking that I don't know?
                                  I'm not the matter at stake here. Considering that an average 50% availability ratio on a daily basis means that half of the entire fleet stay on the ground for a whole year is no more than a cleverly biased interpretation, carefully crafted to fuel you never-ending french bashing rhetoric. In short, you're more a nuisance than an added value.

                                  Now I'm done with you, 'til next time. Bye.

                                  Comment

                                  • TomcatViP
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Nov 2011
                                    • 6109

                                    You should get a shrink presto amigo to adore my rear end with such fury. Leave that hatreds rhetoric at home, will you or leave this forum where ppl abide to have gentle conversation respectuous of their opinion.

                                    50% availability is by the way more that some years published number by the French parliament. But let me guess there are no more French valuable like you there...

                                    Comment

                                    • RALL
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Aug 2017
                                      • 204




                                      Si l'on ajoute tous les cots de fonctionnement ( solde des pilotes...), l'heure de vol d'un Rafale serait de 27.000 euros, selon la loi de finances 2013.
                                      https://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/france...ol-837733.html

                                      Comment

                                      • TooCool_12f
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2009
                                        • 3321

                                        oui, enfin, c'tait ce qui tait prvu en 2014

                                        Comment

                                        • TomcatViP
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Nov 2011
                                          • 6109

                                          Hey guys, Angel strikes out again:





                                          Happy commemoration day to all :back there !

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