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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • FBW
    FBW
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Dec 2011
    • 3295

    Swiss will tell.
    That I heartily disagree with. I'd be surprised if the contents of the eval leak this time. Perhaps we will get a summary of the decision making process post selection. By your logic, had the scores of the previous competition not leaked would it have been valid to weigh the merits of the Gripen vis a vis the Typhoon & Rafale based on it's selection? I'm of (have maintained from the beginning) that the F-35 is somewhat of a long shot to be selected by the Swiss. I STILL think the Rafale is the most likely choice and none of that is based on the relative merits of either aircraft, cost, or industrial participation per se.

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    • halloweene
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2012
      • 4350

      No competition will ever tell the whole truth. Industrial, operational and political needs are so different from every country. i sometimes gate heated due to what i perceive as fanboyism . There is othing such as a perfect weapon platform.

      Comment

      • ActionJackson
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2010
        • 289

        Originally posted by halloweene View Post

        Easy. Much bette rthan F-35, faster and with a 11g limit. Sorry for your flying turtle. PS they also have a satcom, what about F-35, they need a pod?
        Glad it can fly faster, should help when it needs to run away.

        F-35 just needs a network containing a satcom node which it most certainly has. Hell it could just stealth relay a message back to Rafales loitering (read: hiding) way outside the AO to do the satcom links for it.

        It's not like Rafales are going to be needed for any real combat role anyway when there's F-35s in theatre, not for the first week or so. Rafales can play once the far more capable aircraft which aren't already obsolete kick the door down for them.

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        • ActionJackson
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Oct 2010
          • 289

          Originally posted by halloweene View Post

          in that case i apologize. For the sake of your info, defense conmputers have inhibited USB ports etc.

          Mant things are comimn with block4, aswell as with Rafale F4 (including doftware defined radion called ERS-B already mounted on B301 so as to demonstrate fast datalink netwroking) etc.
          Swiss will tell.
          That's Enterprise security 101.

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          • FBW
            FBW
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2011
            • 3295

            Originally posted by halloweene View Post
            PS they also have a satcom, what about F-35, they need a pod?
            FYI, Every F-35 has a UHF satcom from ball aerospace. The deferment for compatibility was due to DoD switching satellite networks, apparently that constellation was not ready when planning what capabilities the F-35 would have at IOC and got bumped to block 4 as Spud said.

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            • TooCool_12f
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2009
              • 3321

              Originally posted by ActionJackson View Post

              It's not like Rafales are going to be needed for any real combat role anyway when there's F-35s in theatre, not for the first week or so. Rafales can play once the far more capable aircraft which aren't already obsolete kick the door down for them.
              obviously french air force does not agree with you, but, hey, what would they know, eh?

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              • halloweene
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 4350

                Originally posted by ActionJackson View Post

                That's Enterprise security 101.
                agree.

                obviously french air force does not agree with you, but, hey, what would they know, eh?
                Don't worry, he know better then anyone else. ust remind me who started odissey dawn before tomahawk salvos (AND those salvos were not avertedt allies?)

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                • halloweene
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2012
                  • 4350

                  Originally posted by TooCool_12f View Post

                  obviously french air force does not agree with you, but, hey, what would they know, eh?
                  FYI, Every F-35 has a UHF satcom from ball aerospace. The deferment for compatibility was due to DoD switching satellite networks, apparently that constellation was not ready when planning what capabilities the F-35 would have at IOC and got bumped to block 4 as Spud said.
                  That is IF you have a "ball aerospace". Maybe you mean a lighter then air airship? The present result is F-35 do not have any satcom. It will come with block4. In itself, it is not redhibitory. No plane is perfect
                  Last edited by halloweene; 1st June 2019, 18:59.

                  Comment

                  • TomcatViP
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 6108

                    I think you are mixing the challenges b/w discrete beyond line of sight communication and broadband (encrypted as an option) satcom.

                    To complete missions in denied airspace, pilots need a way to share information securely, without revealing their location to enemy forces. The F-35 has incorporated Northrop Grummans MADL into its missions systems to provide pilots with the ability to connect with other planes and automatically share situational awareness data between fighter aircraft. The MADL is a high-data-rate, directional communications link that allows for the secure transmission of coordinated tactics and engagement for 5th Generation aircraft operating in high-threat environments. The MADL is one of 27 different waveforms in the F-35s communication, navigation and identification (CNI) suite.
                    On the same trend, I am not sure that F-35 can interface with Android..

                    Source (simply):
                    https://www.f35.com/about/capabilities/interoperability
                    Last edited by TomcatViP; 1st June 2019, 19:32.

                    Comment

                    • djcross
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 5456

                      Originally posted by halloweene View Post

                      That is IF you have a "ball aerospace". Maybe you mean a lighter then air airship? The present result is F-35 do not have any satcom. It will come with block4. In itself, it is not redhibitory. No plane is perfect
                      Ball Aerospace is a company which builds stealthy antennas for USAF Gen 5 airplanes. Ball was given the contract for UHF SATCOM antennas which are present on F-35.

                      Comment

                      • FBW
                        FBW
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3295

                        Originally posted by halloweene View Post



                        That is IF you have a "ball aerospace". Maybe you mean a lighter then air airship? The present result is F-35 do not have any satcom. It will come with block4. In itself, it is not redhibitory. No plane is perfect
                        Think u missed the point. Ball aerospace is the name of the manufacturer of the satcom node on the F-35. The hardware is present on the aircraft. The issue was a DoD switch to a new constellation of satellites starting around 2009. The protocol was not ready so the use was deferred till block 4. In the hustle and bustle of those years, priority was not satcom. Obviously its not been an issue because theyve not moved up activating the node on the F-35.

                        in other words, not an F-35 program issue. It was a satellite issue.

                        Comment

                        • SpudmanWP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 5292

                          If it's that important, they could activate it at any time via a C2D2 update, just like they did with AGCAS.
                          "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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                          • halloweene
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 4350

                            your opinion...

                            Comment

                            • TomcatViP
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2011
                              • 6108

                              There is no secured satcom on the Rafale until 2024/2025 with block 4.2. Air International has a series of article on the Rafale F3R* in its June edition coupled with a report on the Gripen E. Quite interesting to read and compare to get a clear picture about who has what or not.

                              *as well as future block 4.1&4.2
                              Last edited by TomcatViP; 2nd June 2019, 12:47.

                              Comment

                              • halloweene
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 4350

                                No secured satcom is better than no satcom. They will be ready for finnish and swiss delivery.btwthey take the form of an tilting AESA antenna under the chinee, allowing Rafale to joins Syracuse system whatever its position on the globe or so.

                                Comment

                                • SpudmanWP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2009
                                  • 5292

                                  Since the F-35 will have SATCOM before the first Swiss F-35 is to be delivered, it's a non-issue.
                                  "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                  Comment

                                  • eagle1
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2011
                                    • 1125

                                    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                    There is no secured satcom on the Rafale until 2024/2025 with block 4.2. Air International has a series of article on the Rafale F3R* in its June edition coupled with a report on the Gripen E. Quite interesting to read and compare to get a clear picture about who has what or not.

                                    *as well as future block 4.1&4.2
                                    Thanx, I'll get one. Interesting to see what are the latest news on the various rafale standards.

                                    Comment

                                    • halloweene
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2012
                                      • 4350

                                      Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                                      Since the F-35 will have SATCOM before the first Swiss F-35 is to be delivered, it's a non-issue.
                                      othing to do with switzerland. Finland? Maybe.

                                      Comment

                                      • SpudmanWP
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2009
                                        • 5292

                                        In either case anyone looking to buy the F-35 now will have SATCOM before it's ever delivered.
                                        "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                        Comment

                                        • djcross
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2000
                                          • 5456

                                          Do Switzerland or Finland have access to a secure satellite communication system with Ka or W band transponders? If not, then SATCOM doesn't help.

                                          Comment

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