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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • garryA
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Dec 2015
    • 1120

    Originally posted by ThincanKiller View Post

    .......Bla bla bla .......
    get over it, it proved useless and that's why it wasn't necessary to trick Gripen and Rafale FCS for this sort of stunts, or why top gunners flying F-22 don't use them, good for fanboyz at airshow or flaming in forums, not so in combat.

    It's not my trolling you got dragged in, it's your inability to distinguish between your wet dreams and reality, something you two have in common, I really can't help you with that.
    Sure , engineers at Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Sukhoi, Chengdu, Hindustan will be very interested in your expert knowledge to help them understand post stall maneuvers are proved useless, clearly they still can't distinguish between wet dreams and reality

    Originally posted by ThincanKiller View Post
    Then what do you think vortex breakdown means other than "flow which normally very smooth start to get separated
    1- In High AoA testing, they are looking at angle from 20 degrees and greater
    2- One common characteristic observed, as AoA increased, flow start ti be separated ( there is no indication when at what AoA that happen)
    Your logic train is like when you heard the doctor say: "people lose blood when their skin is cut" and "when a person lose too much blood, he die" then you interpret that as "when a person has a small cut on his skin, he die"

    Keep on trolling. I am done with you.





    Comment

    • ThincanKiller
      Registered User
      • Feb 2019
      • 91


      Originally posted by garryA View Post
      Sure , engineers at Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Sukhoi, Chengdu, Hindustan will be very interested in your expert knowledge to help them understand post stall maneuvers are proved useless, clearly they still can't distinguish between wet dreams and reality

      Keep on trolling. I am done with you.
      We don't need your sarcasm and Psychological projection to see that you still have no idea where the difference between your wet dreams and reality is, you've been done for years btw, reading all the B.S you wrote in F-16.supercom, so there's no vortex breakdown when the flow starts to separate according to you genius? Another one to your tally, after F-4, F-14, F-111, and even F-16 as examples for high AoA and spin characteristics, it's a B.S world record.

      AGAIN: F-22 is superior to F-35 Post Stall, they don't do PSM in combat, preferring energy management, being between F-16 and F-18 is not going to make F-35 a Rafale or F-22 beater.

      All I've done was to demonstrate that close-coupled canards could and have done PSM during testing, even demonstrated their combat usefulness, as many people before me have told you, they dismissed them for the same reasons as NASA/DRYDEN, but of course, your reality denial tricks make you believe that you're right and that L-M commercial stunts are going to help them beat those A-C when they can't even equal F-22 already:

      Your fuzzy arguments were obvious in the Rafale vs F-22 video topic, everything for denying reality and take the mickey out of the French (how dare they stand up to the mighty F-22 with their cute little canard?).

      Hell that was fun, but completely wrong, and your arguments haven't changed since despite all the proof of them being completely inaccurate, I mean, better performances with worse aerodynamic efficiency??? Only trolls like you can manage that and come back for more.

      As for L-M aerodynamic expertise.... On F-35 (different design team than F-22 most probably), it's limited to "O_0 ooooops, we have a strake vortex there, supposed to energize the airflow above the wing at 10/20* outward angle, but which instead is sucked in by a low-pressure zone behind the cockpit and breakdown, causing buffet on the fin at moderate AoA", that wouldn't start higher than 20* at once, which means FROM 20* AoA or lower...

      Topic:
      Controllability. Flow separation. Low Dynamic pressures. Vortex breakdown.

      At 30* AoA your strake vortex is already burst, not doing its designed job of energizing the airflow above the wing but creating buffet over the fin instead, you were saying "expert"???


      Click image for larger version  Name:	Slide-6.jpg Views:	0 Size:	137.5 KB ID:	3854492

      I mean I know what a shape like this does for pressures since my early days flying, how they managed to miss that with CATIA and FLUENT as tools remains a mystery, talk about "expertise", and I won't mention yours, or lack of, p-poor knowledge of basic aerodynamics, let alone vortex aeros, if you don't even read a NASA thesis, don't expect to be level in a debate on the subject, you're mediocre at best, add reality denial to that...

      1) You don't need Post Stall to do most of those maneuvers, high AoA/low speed is enough, try the vertical plan.

      2) PSM makes of your little toy a slow target with NO energy to spare, Rafale has demonstrated this vs F-18 and they came up on top.

      3) If other manufacturers chose to relax their FCS, it doesn't mean they are right or that Rafale or Gripen can't do PSM, quite the opposite, they often have a cleaner aerodynamic even with assymetric load.

      4) Endly you missed the principal argument against, it's a defensive maneuver, when you have no altitude and no energy to spare. Goodbye.

      5) Some of the Russian A-C you quote btw are also limited in transonic for the same reason than F-16, prone to departure, to 7.0 or 7.5 g, expertise again...

      End of story.

      Last edited by ThincanKiller; 5th March 2019, 11:57.

      Comment

      • TomcatViP
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Nov 2011
        • 6112

        Originally posted in the News Thread:

        Originally posted by Rob_in_NM View Post
        Dassault can secure sufficient additional orders for the Rafale fighter to take production to at least 2030.

        https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...decade-456291/
        Originally posted by from Dassault CEO's Mr Trappier
        With the current level of orders, plus an additional commitment from France for 30 aircraft due to be formalised in 2023, Trappier says the production line "looks to be alive for the next 10 years".
        "looks to be alive" = -"we are confident" ?
        -"we dare you to think otherwise" ?
        - "in all certainties" ?
        - (staring at the front cover of a sailing yacht magazine laying on the table) "uh, I will be retired" ?
        - "look, (pointing behind your left shoulder) a unicorn:! " And then gesturing a gundown from an unseen Rafale somewhere in the room), "Active cancellation!" ?

        We need a translator.


        But you have to admire how the man can keep his nerves today (ah, if all Rafale fans could be like him ).*

        If more Rafale orders do not arrive "this is life, we will have a plan B", he says, citing Dassault's "flexibility" as a small company.
        EDIT:
        At a rate of 12/y, 10 years might be equal to 7.
        But don't worry, the man has a plan... "B"!

        *At frowning so much after India like an Apache tracking an erratic bear, we might have him converted to... Hinduism?
        Last edited by TomcatViP; 5th March 2019, 17:56.

        Comment

        • Shania
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2017
          • 34

          Another "stupid" USAF pilot who doesn't know F-35 cant do PSM
          https://youtu.be/cuf-Ys3edYI
          +1:20

          Comment

          • mig-31bm
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Oct 2013
            • 2140

            Dreadful !,ThincanKiller remind me of Captain_vietnam and his nonstop Russia Stronk
            https://forums.spacebattles.com/thre...alsaka.278528/
            Ignore him before mod lock down this thread.
            Last edited by mig-31bm; 6th March 2019, 07:26.

            Comment

            • halloweene
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2012
              • 4351

              Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
              Originally posted in the News Thread:




              "looks to be alive" = -"we are confident" ?
              -"we dare you to think otherwise" ?
              - "in all certainties" ?
              - (staring at the front cover of a sailing yacht magazine laying on the table) "uh, I will be retired" ?
              - "look, (pointing behind your left shoulder) a unicorn:! " And then gesturing a gundown from an unseen Rafale somewhere in the room), "Active cancellation!" ?

              We need a translator.


              But you have to admire how the man can keep his nerves today (ah, if all Rafale fans could be like him ).*



              EDIT:
              At a rate of 12/y, 10 years might be equal to 7.
              But don't worry, the man has a plan... "B"!

              *At frowning so much after India like an Apache tracking an erratic bear, we might have him converted to... Hinduism?
              Just for the sake of information, DA will deliver 26 RAfale in 2019. So much for the 12/year.(which were 11 btw).

              Comment

              • halloweene
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 4351

                Very interesting interview with many data. supercruise mach 1.4, 0to 55k feet in one min. etc.

                https://youtu.be/8Xua3049KJg

                Comment

                • FBW
                  FBW
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3295

                  Very interesting interview with many data. supercruise mach 1.4, 0to 55k feet in one min. etc.
                  I posted that two pages back, though who can blame you for not wading through what's become of this thread. Actually posted it thinking you would find it interesting.

                  Comment

                  • halloweene
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 4351

                    Thx FBW, did not see it. Sorry.

                    Comment

                    • TooCool_12f
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 3321

                      man... been away for a couple of weeks and...

                      but there a couple of nuggets, like:

                      Originally posted by ThincanKiller View Post

                      because Hammerhead in my time was not qualified as Aerobatics.

                      ...

                      And yes I have done it hundred of times, not only because I liked it (it's actually quiet fun), but also because it was part of my training, with and instructor or solo on different type of A-Cs, I just fail to understand how it was not part of yours.
                      hammerhead was invented as an aerobatic manoeuver.. so if it wasn't aerobatics, it wasn't "in your time", but "in your imagination"... as for you doing it a "hundred of times".. had you ever approached a cockpit with an instructor, you'd never post some of the nonsense you did... you are a liar, pure and simple

                      as for DR400 going low speed without stalling manoeuver I talked to you about, it was a "lazy eight" .. which is a succession of high yoyos, basically... one left, one right, one left, and so on.. which, looking from above (or from below) draws an eight. On top of the manoeuver, you don't need to be fast, you can let the aircraft go around nicely, pulling 0.5G and your AoA will stay below the stall limit, and you'll fly it through even if you have a speed way below the "stall speed", given for a 1G level flight, without ever stalling the aircraft or doing anything like "post stall manoeuvering".. obviously, since you never stalled it in the first place.

                      The same rule applies to any aircraft: DR400, Rafale, Mirage 2000, F-22, Boeing 747 or the Concorde... (of course, you won't try to do lazy eights in the latter ones... a bit clumsy for such manoeuvering ): you have an AoA value for each aircraft in a particular configuration (flaps down or not, gear down or not, and so on) at which it stalls.. Only the excessive AoA is what makes your aircraft stall.. speed has nothing to do with it... With the combination of AoA and speed you generate lift, which generates acceleration. If you ask more acceleration (Gs), you need to increase lift, by modifying AoA/speed combo, if you as for less acceleration, you decrease lift.. any aircraft can reach as low as 15kts without ever stalling when pulled across the top of a high yoyo, turning at something like 0.2 G maybe, or less.. and if you had been a pilot, especially one with any aerobatic training, you would have known it...

                      so, in a couple of words: you're a liar, and a bad one, not even able to get some information as to, at least, sound plausible
                      Last edited by TooCool_12f; 16th March 2019, 22:40.

                      Comment

                      • halloweene
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 4351

                        For those who consider F-358 as a nimble plane. Powerful? Yes. Agile? Just compare. time to bank, roll rate etc.

                        https://youtu.be/IgD4QvxhFyU

                        Bat turn at 4 mins...

                        So as to compare...

                        https://youtu.be/NzC_5NTBThs
                        Last edited by halloweene; 19th March 2019, 19:24.

                        Comment

                        • FBW
                          FBW
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3295

                          Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                          For those who consider F-358 as a nimble plane. Powerful? Yes. Agile? Just compare. time to bank, roll rate etc.

                          https://youtu.be/IgD4QvxhFyU

                          Bat turn at 4 mins...

                          So as to compare...

                          https://youtu.be/NzC_5NTBThs
                          Makes me want to recycle my old YouTube Wikipedia stopwatch flight comparison bit. Really Hallow? Your going to plant your flag on comparing flight demos ( one of which is from the heritage flight series, which isnt even a true flight demonstration?) I thought better of you.


                          If you want to state the Rafale is more agile, youll get little argument from me (though this seems more apropos for the F-16.net thread where a few members like to state that the F-35 is second only to the F-22 in agility and maneuverability), my suggestion is to re-sign into F-16.net and have it out with them there.

                          We have had a rough Idea of the baseline goals for maneuverability on the F-35 for quite some time, Ive heard more than a few pilots discuss their opinion. The overall impression of F-16 like/F-18 like seems to be very well accurate. Inferior to the F-16 in sustained turns and energy retention, superior as an angles fighter with better subsonic acceleration. It slows down quickly and regains energy quickly. As far as roll rate, I strongly disagree with your opinion from what pilots have said, excellent roll and pitch rates.

                          Its never going to compare favorably to a slicked off Rafale in certain areas, notably sustaining in the transonic region that was the design goal of most previous generation fighters (F-16, Gripen, MiG-29, F-15), therefore certainly inferior to the Rafale and Typhoon in that respect. As an angles fighter? Id say its quite good, (time to corner speed, nose authority, pitch + high AoA speed braking) and that makes it highly dangerous in the newer agility metrics in this age of all aspect, off boresight AAM missiles.
                          Last edited by FBW; 19th March 2019, 20:18.

                          Comment

                          • TomcatViP
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Nov 2011
                            • 6112

                            Unusual incident involving a Rafale today:

                            Civilian passenger gets unexpectedly ejected from Rafale B jet

                            The identity of the civilian passenger (who does not belong to the [French] Ministry of Armed Forces) was not publicly disclosed. Journalists or elected officials are often invited to take part in observation flights approved by the Minister, for information and communication purposes.
                            Source:
                            AeroTime.com

                            Comment

                            • halloweene
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 4351

                              Yes. I guess not a high ranked politician (we would know), but a high ranked executive from Rafale group? Happily, the pilot selected the right switch (separed ejection)

                              Comment

                              • SpudmanWP
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 5292

                                Overheard the next day.....

                                I thought it said "lunch"
                                "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                Comment

                                • edi_right_round
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Nov 2005
                                  • 266

                                  Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                                  Very interesting interview with many data. supercruise mach 1.4, 0to 55k feet in one min. etc.

                                  https://youtu.be/8Xua3049KJg
                                  That must be from the Fighter podcast.
                                  Well for an Uber plane has less rate of climb than Su27 or F-15,not mentioning F-2000 the champ!

                                  Comment

                                  • Guest's Avatar
                                    Guest

                                    If, you guys only knew what you sounded like..............

                                    Comment

                                    • halloweene
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2012
                                      • 4351

                                      Originally posted by edi_right_round View Post

                                      That must be from the Fighter podcast.
                                      Well for an Uber plane has less rate of climb than Su27 or F-15,not mentioning F-2000 the champ!
                                      Please stop that. It is ridiculous. EFT has better cilmbing rate? Good. So what? It doesn't change the fact that the climb rate of Rafale is very correct considering its all rounder conception doese it?

                                      Comment

                                      • OPIT
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2005
                                        • 901

                                        Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                                        Please stop that. It is ridiculous. EFT has better cilmbing rate?
                                        Cool down. In fact nobody knows, but trolls like to take the officially stated 1000 ft/s minimum climb rate as a maximum value. Convenient, but indeed ridiculous.

                                        Comment

                                        • edi_right_round
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Nov 2005
                                          • 266

                                          Originally posted by halloweene View Post

                                          Please stop that. It is ridiculous. EFT has better cilmbing rate? Good. So what? It doesn't change the fact that the climb rate of Rafale is very correct considering its all rounder conception doese it?
                                          So if Rafale is a better A2G platform so what?Last time i checked the Kinematic performance wasnt a bad thing to have,since all the rest is pretty sound in EF.

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