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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • TomcatViP
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Nov 2011
    • 6059

    "Rafale will still be in service in 2050" said Dassault CEO Trapier...
    At least, Mr Trapier won't...

    Comment

    • BlackArcher
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2010
      • 4247

      Why is that funny? Its absolutely normal for a fighter to serve 30 years in active service. Some may last even longer, depending on the upgrades that will be available.

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      • TomcatViP
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Nov 2011
        • 6059

        F-15 relevance is highly discussed nowadays... Why shouldn't we be critical about Raf relevance 30 years from now!!! ? Does humble logic sounds insulting now?
        Last edited by TomcatViP; 7th February 2019, 23:54.

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        • eagle
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2000
          • 2362

          Rafale has been in production for what, 20 years now? With NGF deliveries starting in 2035 at the earliest, it's a safe bet to say it won't have replaced all jets in the inventory before 2050. 2060 for the last NGF delivery and last Rafale out of service for a production run of 25 years is not unreasonable.
          How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
          Yngwie Malmsteen

          Comment

          • OPIT
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2005
            • 901

            My dear TomcatViP, what's insulting is to present a flawed logic as an humble logic. If it's okay to fly F-15 or F-16 for decades, then it's okay for others to envision the same thing.

            Comment

            • TomcatViP
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Nov 2011
              • 6059

              You obviously lack a fair share of it or don't care much at the meanings of your sentences. By 2050, the picture we get from air forces around the world tells us that there will be no room for an "in service, generations behind" aircraft. Then that some will still be around flying at that date, yes and we fan wiill be happy of that.
              Heck the Schlepp was still around in the 90's !

              Comment

              • eagle1
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Feb 2011
                • 1125

                I disgaree,

                If electronics are modernized, current 4th gen could still be potent assets with the right combination of UCAV and standoff weapons. Sure a single platform will not be enough and the future leans towards of a "system of system" more than the single silver bullet that wins against everything. In that context an up to date 4th gen fighter supported by other stealth assets like UCAV might prove enough for quite some times. Not the panacea but still, if it is used well with 6th gen electronics it could do the trick (again with other specialized platform when required).

                Also the F15 still brings a lot with its massive carrying abilities and good range. With the right electronics it could still be a very capable aircraft for many years to come and complement well F35 and F22 with their small internal weaponery.

                Comment

                • XB-70
                  Rank 4 Registered User
                  • May 2018
                  • 316

                  If electronics are modernized, current 4th gen could still be potent assets with the right combination of UCAV and standoff weapons. Sure a single platform will not be enough and the future leans towards of a "system of system" more than the single silver bullet that wins against everything. In that context an up to date 4th gen fighter supported by other stealth assets like UCAV might prove enough for quite some times. Not the panacea but still, if it is used well with 6th gen electronics it could do the trick (again with other specialized platform when required).

                  Also the F15 still brings a lot with its massive carrying abilities and good range. With the right electronics it could still be a very capable aircraft for many years to come and complement well F35 and F22 with their small internal weaponery.
                  I agree with this. Not every operational requirement will need stealth. Further, it's not just the electronics that can be modernized to keep them useful. Don't forget about the weapons!

                  Comment

                  • BlackArcher
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4247

                    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                    F-15 relevance is highly discussed nowadays... Why shouldn't we be critical about Raf relevance 30 years from now!!! ? Does humble logic sounds insulting now?
                    And yet the F-15 is still finding customers, and even the USAF is now looking at the F-15X variant. The F-15 first entered service in what, the 1970s? So 50 years since it first entered service and we'll continue to see it operate for another 30 years..that makes it 80 years in all!

                    Compared to that, the Rafale operating in the 2050s is absolutely normal.

                    Comment

                    • SpudmanWP
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 5288

                      Just a slight correction: The USAF is not "looking at the F-15X", it is being forced on them by forces outside the USAF.
                      "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                      Comment

                      • halloweene
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 4343

                        Their are sometimes comical sentences here and there (not so on this forum). Like Europe tech lags 15 years behind US when F-35 was designed on a french software, Airbus and Boeing using Dassault Systems 3DS colaborative platform and time to time NASA asking for aerodynamic expertise of DA... Show them a slide of a Thales congress conference (not a PR stunt) and they get mad because well... Because it would be more advanced than F-35? and 5 years later F-35 will have another trick to get more advanced etc.?
                        Life cycles.

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                        • halloweene
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 4343

                          Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                          Their are sometimes comical sentences here and there (not so on this forum). Like Europe tech lags 15 years behind US when F-35 was designed on a french software, Airbus and Boeing using Dassault Systems 3DS colaborative platform and time to time NASA asking for aerodynamic expertise of DA... Show them a slide of a Thales congress conference (not a PR stunt) and they get mad because well... Because it would be more advanced than F-35? and 5 years later F-35 will have another trick to get more advanced etc.?
                          Life cycles.
                          Just a slight correction: The USAF is not "looking at the F-15X", it is being forced on them by forces outside the USAF.

                          Yes, everybody says that on F-16 so it is Gospel truth. Israeli were also forced?

                          Comment

                          • SpudmanWP
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 5288

                            Israeli were also forced?
                            Nope. Israel had three basic reasons for "buying" more F-15s:
                            1. It was a 3-airframe package from one mfg so the cost discounts were "too good to pass up"
                            2. All of their existing F-15s are being upgraded as part of the deal
                            3. The US is paying for a majority of it so "why not"
                            Yes, everybody says that on F-16 so it is Gospel truth.
                            Now you're learning
                            "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                            Comment

                            • Jackonicko
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 2386

                              So which other weapons aren't yet operational on Rafale, or haven't been cleared.
                              Attached Files

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                              • TomcatViP
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Nov 2011
                                • 6059

                                Ppl are mixing the facts: the USAF has hundred of F-15 already. That fleet isn't going to be phased out anytime soon. Buying a few example new is just all about fleet management. Why would you keep the most rusted airframe in-service when you can just buy a handful of them new to cut down your fleet obsolescence?
                                FrAF or IAF would certainly have been pleased to do the same with theirr M2K

                                Comment

                                • halloweene
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2012
                                  • 4343

                                  Errr Meteor IS integrated. It is at CEAM only for doctrinal reasons, so as to "write the book" on how to use it.

                                  Comment

                                  • Jackonicko
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Nov 2004
                                    • 2386

                                    So it's not yet operational. No biggy. It won't take long. Though the failure to provide a two-way datalink seems odd.

                                    Comment

                                    • TomcatViP
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Nov 2011
                                      • 6059

                                      Once upon a time...

                                      Rafale sonic boom over the city of Soissons

                                      Pour rejoindre le jet priv, le Rafale a franchi le mur du son, 13 km daltitude, alors quil tait au-dessus de Soissons. Nous avons jug que ctait ncessaire de le faire, il tait suffisamment haut, ctait une dcision parfaitement mrie. On vite de le faire de faon inutile , souligne Cyrille Duvivier. Lofficier rappelle quun appareil est autoris passer en vitesse supersonique partir de 10 km daltitude. Le contact radio ayant pu tre repris entre-temps, le Rafale est rentr doucement la base.

                                      Suite la dtonation, les rseaux sociaux se sont affols, tmoignant des effets de la dflagration - logements qui vibrent - et listant une srie dusines : Weylchem Trosly-Breuil, Saint-Gobain Thourotte, Chanel au Meux Le service dpartemental d'incendie et de secours (SDIS) de lOise na quant lui signal aucun dgt.
                                      ---------------------------------------

                                      To reach the private Business jet [which had lost contact en route from Maroc to Belgium], the Rafale fighter passed Mach 1 at 13 km above sea level, while high above the town of Soissons [known for its sacred Vase from Clovis]. "We felt it was necessary to do this, it was high enough, it was a perfectly mature decision. We usually avoid doing it without reason"says Colonel Cyrille Duvivier. The officer remind that fighter jets are allowed to fly supersonic above 10 km of altitude. As the radio contact [with the lost BJ] was resumed in the meantime, the Rafale returned "gently" to its base.
                                      Following the blast of the detonation, the social media were full of panicked testimony, testifying about the effects of an explosion - dwellings that vibrate - linking them to a list of suspected factories: Weylchem in Trosly-Breuil, Saint-Gobain in Thourotte, Chanel au Meux ... Although the local Fire and Rescue department did not report any damages.
                                      And that for the story of the Rafale in a China shop... Goodnight kids

                                      Source:
                                      Le Courrier Picard.fr
                                      Last edited by TomcatViP; 11th February 2019, 00:23.

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                                      • Guest's Avatar
                                        Guest

                                        Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                                        Just a slight correction: The USAF is not "looking at the F-15X", it is being forced on them by forces outside the USAF.
                                        I doubt the USAF will ever acquire the proposed F-15X. Just can't make a case for it.....

                                        Comment

                                        • Guest's Avatar
                                          Guest

                                          Originally posted by OPIT View Post
                                          My dear TomcatViP, what's insulting is to present a flawed logic as an humble logic. If it's okay to fly F-15 or F-16 for decades, then it's okay for others to envision the same thing.
                                          The difference today is the giant leap in technology and capability over the previous generations. So, comparing say the F-4 vs F-15 is not close to the gap between the F-15 and F-35. This smaller gap is supported today by the development of a number of 6th Generation Designs.


                                          This is not do say Rafales won't be around 30 years. Just fewer will overall....

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