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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • SpudmanWP
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2009
    • 5268

    What is that graphic supposed to represent?

    btw, it's funny that the pic of the "JSF" is actually an F-22.

    --edit--
    google translate = "Outcomes of the multi-criteria analysis, in points"


    Nothing has substantial has changes since the eval. It would be interesting to see what happened between the Rafales & UK F-35Bs in the latest LFE.
    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 30th November 2018, 19:40.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

    Comment

    • a89
      a89
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Sep 2011
      • 368

      Halloweene, is there a ling to that original report?
      History and Military Technology blog

      alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

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      • St. John
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Jan 2018
        • 568

        I'd like to see a breakdown of the scores in separate categories as per the Swiss evaluation. That would allow the errors to be spotted.

        Comment

        • Scorpion82
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jul 2005
          • 4472

          The Dutch evaluation wasn't really representative as were other paper evaluations. Most the aircraft and proposed evolutions weren't built the way envisaged back then. Most of the aircarft were paper aircraft or protoptypes and none was even remotely at the "evaluated" standard.

          Comment

          • TomcatViP
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Nov 2011
            • 6001

            Something that should inspire modesty when attempting to define what kind of fighter system must be built today for 2035...

            Comment

            • halloweene
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2012
              • 4320

              Halloweene, is there a ling to that original report?

              I'm afraid not. This graph is from a dutch diary. However, it pints out that there is little difference between projected planes.

              Comment

              • halloweene
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 4320

                Also called Sakara, operational STACOM on RAfale...

                Comment

                • TomcatViP
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Nov 2011
                  • 6001

                  Which have to rely on a civilian derived offer until now...
                  Last edited by TomcatViP; 5th December 2018, 11:30.

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                  • halloweene
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 4320

                    Yep, still better than no satlink at all...

                    Comment

                    • halloweene
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 4320

                      "Off" information : French HMD for AdA should be announced in january/february.

                      Comment

                      • halloweene
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 4320

                        Radio SATCOM/LINK for Rafale tested succesfully. Mb/s

                        http://www.opex360.com/2018/12/17/th...nt-concluants/

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                        • XB-70
                          Rank 4 Registered User
                          • May 2018
                          • 276

                          halloweene - 20Mbit/sec is a pretty nice upgrade. I'm going to have to do some digging now to see what the Typhoon can do.

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                          • halloweene
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 4320

                            @xb-70i'd be interested in results. This is SATCOM. I could not have the values for ERS-a terlinal presently test at Istres test range.Interestingly, latest mil satcom from france was to be launchd yesterday, delayed to today due to hih winds afaik.

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                            • TomcatViP
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2011
                              • 6001

                              CSO-1 is supposed to be an imaging sat:
                              https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018...-cso-1-launch/

                              CSO-1 separated from Fregat five minutes after its second burn concluded about one hour and 44 seconds after liftoff.
                              Today, the SatCom used on the Rafale is civilian. The F4 version will be the first to use the mil data liaison. Until we see the launch of the dedicated Fr satcom system (budgeted, dev'd), the tech I understand will rely on Leonardo mil satellites. So we should not expect much diff with the Typh regarding its performances.
                              Last edited by TomcatViP; 20th December 2018, 16:19.

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                              • halloweene
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 4320

                                Right on CSO, wrong on Syracuse 4 (aka comsat NG) which was budgeted ( and ordered) in 2015 for a launch in 2020. There are already many syracuse satellites, only one is shared with italy (Sicral). Do not try to understand that way, you'll get a headache.

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                                • TomcatViP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 6001

                                  I never said otherwise regarding Syracuse. Juts didn't mention the name

                                  Syracuse 4A and 4B are designed to carry Ka- and X-band payloads, and to resist multiple threats including cyber attacks, jamming and high-altitude nuclear events. Both have a design life of 15 years.

                                  Jannin [Col. Laurent Jannin, the head of French satcom programs ] said many aspects of the planned third satellite are still being finalized, such as size and exact launch date, but that aviation will be a major focus.

                                  Syracuse 4A and 4B have spot beams that concentrate satellite signals over a limited geographic area. While thats typically fine for relatively slow-moving ground forces that dont need satellite communications until they reach the war zone, spot beams can be a problem for fast-moving military aircraft that can traverse hundreds or thousands of kilometers in the course of a mission.

                                  We need a satellite with high capacity on wide zones, he said.

                                  France has four military communications satellites: the two fully owned Syracuse 3A and 3B satellites, and the Sicral 2 and Athena-Fidus satellites that are shared with Italy. The satellites mainly cover Europe, the Middle East, Africa and large parts of Asia out to around Vietnam.

                                  Jannin said the planned third satellites coverage will stay mainly over existing coverage areas.

                                  Frances Joint Directorate for Infrastructure Networks and Information Systems recently added satellite capacity through Telespazio France, which announced Nov. 5 that it would supply capacity on GovSat-1, a satellite operated by Luxembourg and fleet operator SES, for French government entities by the end of 2018.

                                  Short Breviary of Fr defense com sat. :
                                  Syracuse 4A: Thales Alenia (2020+)
                                  Syracuse 4B: Airbus (2020+)
                                  Syracuse 3A&3B: Alcatel Alenia (2005+)
                                  Sicral 2: Thales Alenia (2015)
                                  Athena-Fidus: Thales Alenia (2014)
                                  Gov-Sat-1: LuxGovSat S.A., a public-private joint venture between the Luxembourg government and SES (Socit Europenne des Satellites) S.A., the world-leading satellite operator of Luxembourg. GovSat-1 will be a multi-mission communication satellite that will use X-band and Military Ka-band frequencies on high-power and fully steerable mission beams to support multiple operations (2018-2019)

                                  Telespazio: ". In tactical military satellite communications (Milsatcom), Telespazio provides telecommunications services to the armed forces of NATO countries, through its involvement in the Italian defence programme SICRAL"

                                  Source:
                                  SpaceNews.com
                                  Last edited by TomcatViP; 20th December 2018, 19:45.

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                                  • halloweene
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2012
                                    • 4320

                                    Very high altitude, terrain hugging over mountains... Enjoy

                                    https://youtu.be/dXXl3dEx6qo

                                    More details here Tomcat

                                    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_3
                                    Last edited by halloweene; 22nd December 2018, 19:06.

                                    Comment

                                    • halloweene
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2012
                                      • 4320

                                      So as to answer to Bio, in may there were 152 Rafale built for France, and there will be no new delivery for France until 2021. 14 delivered to Egypt. Qatari Rafale should be delivered in 2019, aswell as first indian ones (and rest of egyptian + Qatari options are not officially scheduled yet,at least not publicly). In may, during a press conference, DA CEO stated that RAfale chain rythm was above 2/month (11 month a year).
                                      Interestingly, France will send 17 planes including ten rafale in Arctic exercise next summer in Finland.

                                      Comment

                                      • halloweene
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2012
                                        • 4320

                                        A little reminder about data fusion etc. on Rafale. There are also interestin details from the executive summary of wiss eval... ButNVM



                                        Comment

                                        • TomcatViP
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Nov 2011
                                          • 6001

                                          Fusion here is understood as the merge of raw data acquisition tracks from various sensors to generate unique target opportunities. It is not the data fused on a multi functional display, what most user of upgraded 4th gen fighters have already. since the late 80's (at various ergonomic level).
                                          This is why I can say that on Rafale, it is dubious that you have fusion across the full range of sensor's spectrum. Fusion is the correlation of time/space dependents data sourced across various spectrum that necessitate that all sensors are calibrated/integrated to an airframe that allows continuous signals sourcing across the full range of spectrum fed to their sensor while traveling at high speed.

                                          Last but not least, as your airframe have to impair the least the signals sourced across Radio/Ir/Radar/whatever spectrum, you have to be discreet across all those band of signals*.

                                          And it's not only me, this was also the object of some remarks made public by the DGA.

                                          *yeah, you'd better be stealth/IR-stealth/EMCOM stealth etc... Perhaps that where the AdlA jumped out of he wagon.
                                          Last edited by TomcatViP; 28th December 2018, 07:21.

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