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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • TomcatViP
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Nov 2011
    • 6107

    It's also (but I might be wrong) a weird form of justification as the price discussed is just an assumption based on the overall cost of the "126" contract. There was not two different pricing - as far as we know - but a contract for the procurement of that number of planes. So as a basis of justification it is... baseless.

    Comment

    • BlackArcher
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2010
      • 4285

      The biggest problem is that Dassault chose Reliance as its partner for some offsets. Prior to this, for the MRCA, they wanted Reliance to build the Rafale in India. Now, Reliance Industries, is a company whose reputation is mud. It is known for having bribed Indian Govt. and state govt. officials (mostly of the Congress Party which ruled India for most of its independent history) to get its way. Which is why when these baseless accusations began to snowball, with people readily believing that if Reliance was involved, then corruption was afoot. And this govt. did not handle it well, thinking that this issue will go away, but it hasn't. All its done is seriously hamper any chances of Rafale being built in India, as much as the IAF wants that to happen.

      Comment

      • TomcatViP
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Nov 2011
        • 6107

        Supreme court of India inquiry:
        Originally posted by NDTV.com
        The information [Attorney General KK Venugopal said] can't be disclosed even under the Right to Information Act. "The price (revealed in parliament) was not of loaded aircraft. Secrecy is on weapon and avionics. The Air Force feels if it is disclosed, our adversaries will take benefit,"
        .

        interesting.
        I guess that someone in French parliament will raise the question....

        Also:
        [...] Dassault has not yet submitted details of its offset partner, the government told the Supreme Court.

        "The vendor will inform the offset partner to us. So far there is no information on this," said Additional Secretary Defence Apurva Chandra, to questions from the judges.
        Source:
        https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/only...-court-1947308
        Last edited by TomcatViP; 14th November 2018, 14:40.

        Comment

        • halloweene
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2012
          • 4350

          Of course they didnt detail everything! They have 5 years to fulfill their obligations and you want them to disclose future?

          CEO of Dassault counters Rahul: I dont lie new Rafale 9% cheaper
          https://indianexpress.com/article/in...mbani-5443824/

          Comment

          • TomcatViP
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Nov 2011
            • 6107

            I had in mind 3 years.

            Also:

            Originally posted by same source
            There is no sovereign guarantee that Dassault will meet its obligation of delivering the 36 Rafale fighter jets for which the country signed a Rs. 59,000-crore deal, the government admitted in Supreme Court today. What is there, government's top law officer KK Venugopal told the court, was a "Letter of Comfort" from France - a written document that assures that an obligation will eventually be met.
            Sad news for India but a relatively good one for many French taxpayer here.

            But should we not be amazed by the quantity of inked paper filled by the French gov devoid of any meanings?! What about the much publicized Paris agreement?

            Source:
            https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/no-s...-court-1947586
            Last edited by TomcatViP; 14th November 2018, 20:54.

            Comment

            • BlackArcher
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2010
              • 4285

              From Vishnu Som's twitter - two visual differences between Indian Rafales and any other Rafale

              So I spot what appear to be two India specific upgrades on the first Rafale for the IAF. The fin near the cockpit may be linked to an Israeli sat com set and the radar warning receiver on the tail also appears different to in-service Rafales.

              Comment

              • halloweene
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 4350

                Bad gueeses, but nvm. satcom is on the upper right cheek. The fin is a vhf antenna (at least in french forces). The new black colour is not that new.

                But should we not be amazed by the quantity of inked paper filled by the French gov devoid of any meanings?! What about the much publicized Paris agreement?
                Do not worry, they are far from reaching your level of meaningless

                Comment

                • TomcatViP
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Nov 2011
                  • 6107

                  Paperless !

                  Comment

                  • BlackArcher
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4285

                    hi Halloweene

                    You're right. Even Egyptian Rafales have that antenna behind the cockpit. But I didn't find it on French Rafale Ds.

                    Comment

                    • Scorpion82
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jul 2005
                      • 4480

                      Could that antenna possibly belong to a UHF band datalink as a substitute to LINK16?

                      Comment

                      • halloweene
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 4350

                        I believe it is a VHF antenna, the first radios delivered by Thales werent top...
                        To anyone interested in GaN technology in Europe (and if Rafale read Mancuso ppt...)

                        http://www.microwave-rf.com/tous.php...elt=event#body

                        http://www.microwave-rf.com/document...%20MANCUSO.pdf

                        Comment

                        • TomcatViP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 6107

                          2D tile silicon substrate modules
                          So they did indeed modify the substrate

                          Comment

                          • halloweene
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 4350

                            Interestingly, they talk about 2020 for delivery of final product, engraved in 15m. Present architecture for Xband (25m) is according to them released for production. Few hundreds were.

                            Comment

                            • eagle1
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 1125

                              In one of the last slides you can see the many conformal GaN antennas on the rafale projected for the F4 standard. Even in the vertical tail !

                              Comment

                              • halloweene
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 4350

                                don't show that on f-16.net, you'd be harrassed to ban by a score of religious f-35 zealots...

                                Comment

                                • bring_it_on
                                  2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
                                  • Jun 2004
                                  • 12480

                                  Hallow, this is standard stuff on the RF side for the big players in this space. Thale's US competitors are doing the same and in some cases at many times the scale if you look at how many X-band GaN T/R modules Raytheon is delivering to support TPY-2 annual production for example or how many S-band GaN chips Wolfspeed has already delivered for A&D applications to its radar OEM. Or for that matter the scale required to support the US Navy's AMDR and EASR programs. As I had mentioned earlier, Northrop has flown close to a dozen test flights with a scalable X/Ku band tile based GaN radar so I don't think anyone anywhere will offend anyone for presenting info on industry performance that is widely known to those who stay up to date on it.
                                  Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                                  Comment

                                  • Kovy
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Apr 2004
                                    • 1465

                                    Even Egyptian Rafales have that antenna behind the cockpit. But I didn't find it on French Rafale Ds.
                                    It's a VHF/FM antenna installed on french aircrafts (Rafale B/C/M, Mirage 2000D and Sem) since about 2010+

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                                    The only difference I can see from current Rafale is this "panel"

                                    Click image for larger version

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                                    Attached Files
                                    Last edited by Kovy; 24th November 2018, 16:20.
                                    The Rafale international forum :
                                    http://rafale.freeforums.org/

                                    Rafale news blog :
                                    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment

                                    • halloweene
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2012
                                      • 4350

                                      Little reminder, Nederlands, few years ago...

                                      Comment

                                      • Sintra
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2007
                                        • 3849

                                        "Little reminder, Nederlands, few years ago..."

                                        Few years ago?!
                                        You mean, (almost) two decades.
                                        That graphic was produced in 2001


                                        sigpic

                                        Comment

                                        • halloweene
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2012
                                          • 4350

                                          You are right. Before downgrading of F-35 perfs and delays...

                                          Comment

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