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Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

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  • OPIT
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2005
    • 901

    NORAD also means specific procedures and cryptographic communications.

    Comment

    • PhilipG
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2010
      • 237

      As I understood it Rafales have operated successfully as an integrated part of a USN Carrier air wing without problems, does this mean implicitly that USN planes cannot work with NORAD? Or the Canadian Hornets have different communication gear than USMC / USN Hornets or Super Hornets?

      Comment

      • St. John
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Jan 2018
        • 568

        Yeah, cryptography is software, software and even electronics is easily adapted.

        Comment

        • OPIT
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Aug 2005
          • 901

          PhilipG : Bogus logic
          @ St. John : It might be easily adapted if you can have access to relevant datas but that's not going to happen.

          Comment

          • halloweene
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2012
            • 4351

            Exactly Opit. Pg is linked to MDFs btw. (same as B-61 bombs for belgium for example). Trying to dig

            Comment

            • St. John
              Rank 4 Registered User
              • Jan 2018
              • 568

              So what are you saying, the Canadians invited you to tender but wouldn't give you access to the necessary data? Okay, so allow them to configure the cryptography on the aircraft. Isn't there a branch of Dassault in Canada or the US that can do it? How is this any different to BAE doing the EW on the F-35? They just use a US branch.

              Comment

              • halloweene
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 4351

                As i told you i'm digging. Therefore i will not answer you know. Maybe (i insist on maybe) Canada NORAD would need to know things we do not want to unveil such as nuke systems. I don't know exactly.

                Comment

                • St. John
                  Rank 4 Registered User
                  • Jan 2018
                  • 568

                  There aren't any nukes being sold with the jets to Canada though, so any nuke systems could be simply be omitted from the aircraft. It would then be like they never existed.

                  Comment

                  • bring_it_on
                    2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 12480

                    How is this any different to BAE doing the EW on the F-35? They just use a US branch.
                    BAE Systems USA is an ex Lockheed division that they purchased after meeting US Government regulations and firewalling the business adequately from the parent company in the UK. It is different from a pure US based subsidiary which in most cases is an extension of the company to make doing business within a particular nation easier. The BAE move had to go one step beyond because it was a purchase of an asset considered sensitive.

                    That said there is probably a way but then you can never ever rule out NatSec needs and relationships when choosing Military wares.
                    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                    Comment

                    • SpudmanWP
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 5292

                      France is just butthurt that they will not be able to look at the 5/2-Eyes related intel as they create the MDFs.
                      "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                      Comment

                      • TomcatViP
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Nov 2011
                        • 6122

                        Rafale in India: detail of price could be released (submitted to court)

                        But meanwhile, this (we mentioned this earlier):
                        The offset arrangement does not involve the 36 jets that are part of the current deal [...] with France safeguard[ing] government interests if there were contractual problems.
                        !!!
                        Dassault will have to start churning out lot of jets in no time... In India. I guess the IN delegation is walking with big smiles in the negotiation room.
                        Although as we know since one month that Dassault intentions were to include MRO as an offset, I wonder if this has to be understood strictly (no Rafale involved = not even the maintenance cost).

                        Also
                        After the Indian Negotiation Team submitted its report [...] on August 4, 2016, it was vetted by the finance and law ministries within 20 days and the Cabinet Committee on Security approved the deal on August 24, said the government.
                        What an awkward set of risks from the Fr gov.*

                        In video:
                        https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/news...e-court-498692


                        Source:.
                        NDTV.com
                        Last edited by TomcatViP; 13th November 2018, 11:34.

                        Comment

                        • St. John
                          Rank 4 Registered User
                          • Jan 2018
                          • 568

                          bring_it_on - I am very aware of that but it is nothing special. Rolls-Royce have a similar arrangement, even MBDA in Europe have a similar arrangement for NatSec between owner countries.

                          Comment

                          • halloweene
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 4351

                            France is just butthurt that they will not be able to look at the 5/2-Eyes related intel as they create the MDFs.
                            Even if so, how do ou create MDFs without data?

                            Comment

                            • djcross
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 5464

                              How do you expect to succeed in battle without MDFs?

                              Evil Americans use Rivet Joint, U-2, EP-3 and other methods like good old fashioned espionage to obtain the data to create MDFs.

                              Comment

                              • halloweene
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 4351

                                Anyone said eveil americans? Things are quite more complex aren't they? Evil french also use Pleiades satellites (and further), Gabriel C160, some ship, ASTAC pods etc to do it. Definitely with less assets of course. If you talk to mils in Syria, more and more documents are classified "5eyes + France". But not Norad. We are only guessing here.

                                Comment

                                • St. John
                                  Rank 4 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2018
                                  • 568

                                  Same way you design a database without data.

                                  Comment

                                  • SpudmanWP
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2009
                                    • 5292

                                    Even if so, how do ou create MDFs without data?
                                    The same way that BAE works on sensitive US systems, by creating fire-walled companies on Host-nation soil.
                                    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                    Comment

                                    • BlackArcher
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2010
                                      • 4351

                                      First pictures of the IAF's first Rafale RB-008. ANI media team got access to Dassault's CEO and took the pics and posted a 1 min video of RB-008 on a flight.

                                      Pic courtesy ANI, posted on Livefist's Twitter

                                      Twitter link

                                      Comment

                                      • BlackArcher
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2010
                                        • 4351

                                        IAF's first Rafale, RB-008 video

                                        Twitter link

                                        Comment

                                        • BlackArcher
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Dec 2010
                                          • 4351

                                          Dassault CEO Eric Trappier's interview on the Rafale deal and accusations by the dunderhead that leads the Congress Party in India (Rahul Gandhi) that he's a liar. The Congress Party is desperate to make this an election issue that will somehow dethrone the current NDA govt. of Narenda Modi. Since they have had no scams since this govt. came to power, they're manufacturing one, hoping that just the insinuation alone will be enough to taint this govt.

                                          India Today article

                                          The chief of Dassault Aviation, the French manufacturer contracted to deliver 36 fighter jets to the Indian Air Force, hit out at Rahul Gandhi for calling him a liar.

                                          "I don't lie," said Eric Trappier, the CEO of Dassault Aviation. "In my position as CEO, you don't lie."


                                          Trappier was responding to Gandhi's accusation that he was lying about the Rafale deal to protect Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

                                          Trappier also spoke about the controversial decision to make of Anil Ambani's Reliance Defence an offset partner and about the Congress's claim that the Modi government was overpaying for the Rafale jets.

                                          Moments after Trappier spoke out in his interview (watch full interview here) to news agency ANI, the Congress reacted, calling the Dassault CEO a "co-accused" whose statements hold no value.

                                          Congress spokesperson Randeep Surjewala called the interview "dictated" and, "Manufactured lies can not suppress the Rafale scam."

                                          "First rule of Law - Mutual Beneficiaries & Co-accused's statements hold no value. Second Rule: Beneficiaries & Accused can't be Judge in their own case. Truth has a way of coming out," Surjewala also tweeted.

                                          The Rafale deal has run into controversy in India; the Congress has alleged that businessman Anil Ambani benefitted unduly from it, and that the Narendra Modi government was overpaying for the fighter jets..

                                          ...

                                          TRAPPIER ON PRICE

                                          Dassault CEO Eric Trappier, in an interview to news agency ANI, rebutted the Congress's claim on price by saying that the price of the Rafale in a "flyaway" condition is less expensive in the NDA deal than in the UPA deal.

                                          Trappier said, "Price of 36 [aircraft] was exactly the same when you compare with 18 flyaway. 36 is the double of 18, so as far as I was concerned, it should have been double the price. But because it was government to government, there was some negotiation, I had to decrease [the] price by 9%. The price of Rafale in flyaway condition is less expensive in the 36 contract than the 126 contract."

                                          Trappier did not speak about the aircraft that would have been manufactured in India under the UPA deal and whether they might have changed the price equation.

                                          ..

                                          Comment

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