Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rafale 2018 Thread: Europe's best Eurocanard

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • TooCool_12f
    replied
    Originally posted by St. John View Post
    I should point out that this isn't really impressive for a g spike. An F-15 pulled 12g in a split S during Desert Storm.
    thing is, the F-15 has no hardware limiter for acceleration.. if you pull the stick you get the G's.. it can become harder mechanically above certain amount of G's but if you have the strength, you can pull more... the FBW aircraft, you can pull the stick as strongly as you wish, up to ripping it out of its base, but the system won't ever give you more G's than what it's programmed for..

    Leave a comment:


  • EC 5/25 Corsair
    replied
    And a Greek 2000 13+ G on an emergency pull up. And many more.

    But these kind of occurrence usually imply a structural integrity check, especially with paylod under the wings.

    Leave a comment:


  • St. John
    replied
    Originally posted by halloweene View Post

    airspeed is indcated on high left part or fthe hud. Thnk it was around 450 Kts, bt i should check (or you).
    i think there is a 10.5 g about 7.45'
    I should point out that this isn't really impressive for a g spike. An F-15 pulled 12g in a split S during Desert Storm.

    Leave a comment:


  • EC 5/25 Corsair
    replied
    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
    hence where there is no Alpha.
    What the hell?
    There's still airstream even when you're stalled. The wing or the airsream don't magically disappear - it still has an angle relative to the stream. Hence you can still measure an alpha. There's just no lift generation anymore.



    Time to get some basic flight mechanics courses.

    Leave a comment:


  • halloweene
    replied
    Originally posted by moon_light View Post
    Iam wondering, what was Rafale speed when the pilot pull 10G?
    airspeed is indcated on high left part or fthe hud. Thnk it was around 450 Kts, bt i should check (or you).
    i think there is a 10.5 g about 7.45'
    Last edited by halloweene; 17th February 2019, 15:09.

    Leave a comment:


  • moon_light
    replied
    Iam wondering, what was Rafale speed when the pilot pull 10G?

    Leave a comment:


  • TomcatViP
    replied
    No alpha refers to the Angle of Attack. Semantically, it refers to the wing angle with the true airstream. It's irrelevant to the nose or main axis direction (think @ induced lift to be convinced). Beyond max alpha where the wing is fully stalled, you only have an airstream angle with your velocity vector. It can even be -180 in Yaw departure (when wing is upside down and reversed with the direction of flight)

    Leave a comment:


  • halloweene
    replied
    Per defintion, Alpha is when you are still...in flight. Super maneuverability refers to post stall maneuvering, a domain where wings doesn't provide any lift... hence where there is no Alpha
    Revise, but nvm. Used to your knowless rantins. alpha is the difference between you velocity vector and your "noise pointing". Being able to recover is irrelevant (what was just pointed slightly above when i reminded that a Rafale as measured at 120 alpha -20 Kts during FCStests)

    The allusion about car industries is quite funny considering the difference in industry levels between USA andEU.

    Leave a comment:


  • TomcatViP
    replied
    Per defintion, Alpha is when you are still...in flight. Super maneuverability refers to post stall maneuvering, a domain where wings doesn't provide any lift... hence where there is no Alpha.

    High alpha pitch up or high beta out of path slides are perfectly recoverable maneuvers that allows you to cut the corner of a turn, a spiral and/or get a shot at an opponent without overloading your plane or blacking out (there is nearly no extra G inside the Alpha [beta] pitch [yaw] rate gain.

    Like I said already, it's like having a long journey inside a Cadillac following a Citroen 2cv. Only one will cry Mama...
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 16th February 2019, 19:18.

    Leave a comment:


  • halloweene
    replied
    The very definition of super manoeuvrabiloity is that you can still control the plane after stall. The only problem is that if you do so you lose so much energy that after you stand as a sitting duck.Always that evergy factor.... The typical answer to this type of manoeuver is full power pull the stick. Of course, there is nothing such as a perfect move in BFM.
    Last edited by halloweene; 15th February 2019, 16:49.

    Leave a comment:


  • moon_light
    replied
    Originally posted by halloweene View Post
    Only one thing true in your statements. Rafale FCS limit plane to 30. And it is a tactical choice. During tests it was seen at 110, -20 Kts
    Going to high AoA is not the same as having good nose authority at high AoA

    Leave a comment:


  • halloweene
    replied
    Advantages are not overset by alpha. This is PR to promote F-35 which has otherwise medium quality of flying. High alpha makes you point towards a very different vector from your velocity vector and therefore make of you a sitting duck.

    Of course this is extreme flying, i just posted it for pleasure. But you do know that some "tator" (rafale demo pilot) claimed to be regularly above 10g during square turn don't you? I'm sure you remember it.

    Leave a comment:


  • TomcatViP
    replied
    *10g (plus or minus) is crazy Hallow. It's a mad foray into HellWillCome-for-sure at airshow. Hear the pilot. This is extreme flying. Nobody want an European Sukhoi. That's all what I am saying (plus the fact that the tactical advantages are today overset by Alpha).

    Regarding the fuel fraction, you had a long sniper-in-an-alley session during last Bourget Airshow. I think it was of some kind of interest for all of us here to draw a parallel.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 13th February 2019, 14:56.

    Leave a comment:


  • halloweene
    replied
    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
    That's why you have Alpha. And no, it's not a Marvel action hero.

    We have also shown before in those pages* that the G limit in the HUD is 10 beyond what the G meter freeze. Either it is the manifestation of a FBW limitation (would seem logical) either the HUD symbol can't be incremented beyond that number (not logical). So way above would logically be... 10. Something already a pain to watch.

    In this video, I haven't seen the G limit pass 9.8
    The Alpha also is capped around 25 in this demo
    There is also l'Effet bote Meuh manifesting itself during rolls excursion.
    The AoA indicator (gear down) showing up at 30deg
    The fuel fraction is minimal with a low fuel indication popping up at the third of the video and Bingo status at two-third.

    *Thanks to a video that was posted of a pilot demonstrating the high G 360 turn in front of the aircraft carrier CdG.
    Hilarious when comparing to F-35 demo, which last only half of the time of Rafale demo... Abiyt 10g+ during demo, it is wel documented from the cvery pilots that do it....
    Keep praying your Atlantic puffin...
    Only one thing true in your statements. Rafale FCS limit plane to 30. And it is a tactical choice. During tests it was seen at 110, -20 Kts

    Leave a comment:


  • TomcatViP
    replied
    Typical Denial behavior. This place have been a Schoolyard for so many years (see the thread tittle)...

    Leave a comment:


  • OPIT
    replied
    OMG ! I thought I could argue with serious peoples and I ended up in a schoolyard. Sorry. My mistake.

    Leave a comment:


  • St. John
    replied
    Originally posted by OPIT View Post

    You're welcome in this dream world. If a large internal fuel volume was such a huge benefit then everyone would build fatter fighters.
    People have been building fatter fighters ever since WWI.

    Leave a comment:


  • TomcatViP
    replied
    From the M2K to the Rafale, "fatter" was the goal...

    Also, is this fat, because it's full of juice with a WB?

    Last edited by TomcatViP; 13th February 2019, 10:10.

    Leave a comment:


  • OPIT
    replied
    Originally posted by Scooter View Post

    Keep living in your dream world. As the large internal volume of the airframe on Stealth Fighters is a "huge" benefit. If, you care to acknowledge it or not...
    You're welcome in this dream world. If a large internal fuel volume was such a huge benefit then everyone would build fatter fighters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by OPIT View Post
    No I'm not. You're just pretending that a by product of VLO (internal weapon bays) is yet another benefit. Ditto about the large internal fuel volume vs external fuel tanks.
    While I'm at it, the "5th generation fighter" label is a LM thing I just don't care about.
    Keep living in your dream world. As the large internal volume of the airframe on Stealth Fighters is a "huge" benefit. If, you care to acknowledge it or not...

    Leave a comment:

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

 

Working...
X