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JF-17 vs J-10 vs LCA

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    #41
    Indeed, compared to all others the F-CK-1 have 2x weapons stations for TC-2 AAM similar to the Eurofighter and MiG-31 (these off-course have 4x belly weapons stations). You don't need draggy pylons for the 2x belly hard points.

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      #42
      F-CK-1 looks more like Japan's F-2A than an F-16.
      Go Huskers!

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        #43
        The Tejas carries its LDP on a dedicated fuselage station. That allows it to carry weapons and drop tanks on 7 wing and fuselage pylons. Plus there are tandem wing pylons already certified that allow the Tejas to carry 2 500 lb bombs on a single mid-board pylon.

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          #44
          Well A/G is another matter. I think F-CK-1 is mainly designed for and used in the air defence role and I don't think a targeting pod is available.
          Nevertheless, it can carry 4 bombs under its fuselage keeping the wing stations free:
          Click image for larger version

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          Btw, aren't those 1000 lbs bombs that Tejas is carrying?
          How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
          Yngwie Malmsteen

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            #45
            JF-17 weapons load variations:
            Attached Files

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              #46
              Eagle, in that load out, can the F-CK-1 carry loads only on 2 wing stations (1 on each wing) and 1 wing tip station? Lack of a targeting pod or lasing pod would mean that another platform would need to lase the target. Has the F-CK-1 been seen with LGBs or just dumb bombs?

              And yes, those were 2 1000lb bombs, not 500lbs. Thanks for correcting my typo.
              Last edited by BlackArcher; 11th October 2017, 19:46.

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                #47
                Lacking a dedicated pod hardpoint, the JF-17 will need to use a wing pylon to mount the ASELPOD (reportedly bought from Turkey). Haven't yet seen or heard about its integration with the JF-17, but till Block 2, it lacked this capability or the fuselage hardpoint.

                And why were 2 different AShMs integrated with the JF-17? I understand that the JF-17 needed to take over maritime strike roles from the Mirage in the PAF which explains the expedited integration of AShMs, but why 2 different types?

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                  #48
                  Eagle, in that load out, can the F-CK-1 carry loads only on 2 wing stations (1 on each wing) and 1 wing tip station? Lack of a targeting pod or lasing pod would mean that another platform would need to lase the target. Has the F-CK-1 been seen with LGBs or just dumb bombs?
                  I see no reason not to use all wing stations... except MTOW limitations. 2 additional AAMs or 2 bombs might work. Outer wing stations seem to be rated for single stores only anyway.
                  There are pics with cluster bombs, GP bombs and the Wan Chien missile. I've never seen LGBs.
                  How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
                  Yngwie Malmsteen

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                    #49
                    And why were 2 different AShMs integrated with the JF-17? I understand that the JF-17 needed to take over maritime strike roles from the Mirage in the PAF which explains the expedited integration of AShMs, but why 2 different types?
                    are you talking about cm-400akg and cm-802akg?

                    from what I understand, the former is supersonic and is less of an airbreathing cruise missile than a derivative of the SY-400 which is a short range ballistic missile... whereas the latter is a more traditional subsonic ashm like a late block harpoon or exocet.

                    so i think their flight profiles and their flight speeds are probably the big differences between the two

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                      #50
                      Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                      Lacking a dedicated pod hardpoint, the JF-17 will need to use a wing pylon to mount the ASELPOD (reportedly bought from Turkey). Haven't yet seen or heard about its integration with the JF-17, but till Block 2, it lacked this capability or the fuselage hardpoint.

                      And why were 2 different AShMs integrated with the JF-17? I understand that the JF-17 needed to take over maritime strike roles from the Mirage in the PAF which explains the expedited integration of AShMs, but why 2 different types?
                      Yes, it does lack a dedicated hard-point for the Pod carriage unlike its bigger sibling the J-10.

                      Regarding the why 2 different anti-ship missiles (CM-400AKG Vs C-802)? Well C-802 is actually range of missiles, from the vanilla Radar guided C-802AK/AKD to the CM-802AKG IIR version. These are your traditional sub-sonic sea skimmers. CM-400AKG is completely different animal. It is literally an air-launched ballistic missile with a speed of mach 5 (similar to the Raduga Kh-15). INS/GPS/BDS with terminal IR/TV supplemented by a "passive" radar (similar to anti-radiation? ). CM-400AKG is not a sea-skimmer. It is launched at high altitude and dives at the target at maximum speed.

                      Edit:

                      I don't know why some call the CM-400AKG a variant of the YJ-12. They operate very differently. From propulsion to guidance to flight-profile. The Export version of the YJ-12 is the CM-302.
                      Last edited by QuantumFX; 12th October 2017, 06:14.

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                        #51
                        CM-400AKG is the export variant of the YJ-12 which is a ramjet powered missile with top speed of up to Mach 5 and depending on altitude up to 400 km range. It's designed to kill heavily defended targets like aircraft carriers. JF-17 can carry two of these. There is no lightweight fighter with anything close to this capability.
                        pb::

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                          #52
                          Apparently this is the only source attributing CM-400AKG as "export" version of YJ-12.

                          https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/20130129.aspx

                          ---------
                          I agree with Quantum... There is nothing common between YJ-12 which is ramjet and CM-400 which is rocket. They even fly different profile.

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                            #53
                            CM-400AKG is the export variant of the YJ-12 which is a ramjet powered missile with top speed of up to Mach 5 and depending on altitude up to 400 km range. It's designed to kill heavily defended targets like aircraft carriers. JF-17 can carry two of these. There is no lightweight fighter with anything close to this capability.
                            How about F-2 and ASM-3, range is shorter but it can carry 4 of them

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                              #54
                              I don't know why some call the CM-400AKG a variant of the YJ-12. They operate very differently. From propulsion to guidance to flight-profile. The Export version of the YJ-12 is the CM-302.
                              I agree, but that's how it's normally reported. CM-400AKG seems to be more like a scaled down Kh-22 type weapon than YJ-12

                              How about F-2 and ASM-3, range is shorter but it can carry 4 of them
                              F-2 is a middle weight fighter. ASM-3 is a more sophisticated weapon, much more like a miniature YJ-12, but it is a lot slower.
                              Last edited by Multirole; 12th October 2017, 08:50.
                              pb::

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                                #55
                                F-2 is not a lightweight fighter. you can buy 10 JF-17 for price of 1 F-2.

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                                  #56
                                  I agree, but that's how it's normally reported. CM-400AKG seems to be more like a scaled down Kh-22 type weapon than YJ-12
                                  English language media of Chinese defence developments, including Chinese defence export products, should always be cross checked across a couple of other independent reports to make sure they are accurate, because their record of accuracy is often not the best.

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                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by Multirole
                                    CM-400AKG is the export variant of the YJ-12 which is a ramjet powered missile with top speed of up to Mach 5 and depending on altitude up to 400 km range. It's designed to kill heavily defended targets like aircraft carriers. JF-17 can carry two of these. There is no lightweight fighter with anything close to this capability.
                                    Manufacturers the world over have adopted ramjet & turbofan/turbojet propulsion for anti-ship missiles (aside from the Soviets/Russians who used it more for nuclear roles), and for good reason. A rocket-propelled AShM is essentially a glide-weapon. It follows a predictable ballistic trajectory making it vulnerable to interception by area-defences and since it can't be throttled its not very good at terminal stage jinxing (end-stage maneuvers would bleed much more energy than a cruise missile).

                                    It'll likely be effective against corvettes & smaller classes i.e. those equipped only with point-defence missiles & CIWS (read: RAM, Aster 15, Barak-1, etc.) but any ship equipped with longer ranged systems (read: ESSM, Aster 30, Barak-8) will engage it before it arrives at the 'dive-envelope'.
                                    Last edited by Vnomad; 12th October 2017, 15:23.

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                                      #58
                                      Are there any pictures of the J-10 or J-11/16 equipped with the CM-400AKG (or a Chinese-variant)?

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                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by Vnomad View Post
                                        Are there any pictures of the J-10 or J-11/16 equipped with the CM-400AKG (or a Chinese-variant)?
                                        None. AFAIK CM-400AKG is export only.

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                                          #60
                                          How about F-2 and ASM-3, range is shorter but it can carry 4 of them
                                          Are we sure about that? It's a pretty large missile, like 50% more weight than the old ASM-1/2 missiles.
                                          How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
                                          Yngwie Malmsteen

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