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By: 25th July 2017 at 10:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
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By: 27th July 2017 at 13:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
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By: 28th July 2017 at 08:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A very interesting interview for those who haven't watched it yet. The biggest thing I took away from it was that the F-104 certainly had many accidents but it wasn't the disaster that many people seem to think and there were tons of contributing factors to cause the losses that weren't necessarily the fault of the jet itself. It was a good aircraft in many ways.
By: 30th July 2017 at 08:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-There was a pilot on SimHQ, Andy Bush from memory, who has flown it, and he used to remind it as well: when used properly, the F-104 was a fabulous aircraft...
By: 30th July 2017 at 15:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A very interesting interview for those who haven't watched it yet. The biggest thing I took away from it was that the F-104 certainly had many accidents but it wasn't the disaster that many people seem to think and there were tons of contributing factors to cause the losses that weren't necessarily the fault of the jet itself. It was a good aircraft in many ways.
Good interview indeed. I don't think the F-104 had anymore accidents than other combat aircraft of era and generation. An aircraft I like a lot, along with many other Century series aircraft.
By: 30th July 2017 at 18:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Good interview indeed. I don't think the F-104 had anymore accidents than other combat aircraft of era and generation. An aircraft I like a lot, along with many other Century series aircraft.
It would seem there were a combination of factors given for the F-104's attrition rate in German service:
Lack of high performance lead in trainers, many pilots converted from F-84 to F-104.
Training was situated at Luke AFB, a far cry from flying in Europe.
Poorly trained Conscripts ground crew
The mission itself- Luftwaffe pilots were renowned/notorious for aggressive low level flying.
Could be a "pick any, all, or none", German F-104 attrition rates weren't outrageous compared to other first time operators of high performance late '50's era fighters as you and others have pointed out.
By: 30th July 2017 at 19:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Could be a "pick any, all, or none", German F-104 attrition rates weren't outrageous compared to other first time operators of high performance late '50's era fighters as you and others have pointed out.
A good example would the RAAF Mirage III - 36% losses.
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/3a3%20losses.htm
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/482493-raaf-mirage-3-losses.html
By: 30th July 2017 at 19:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-You have to factor the different weather conditions b/w central Eu and Australia.
By: 30th July 2017 at 20:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-You have to factor the different weather conditions b/w central Eu and Australia.
What is the difference between the 2 country's climates - is it even relevant?
By: 30th July 2017 at 20:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-the difference?
in western/central Europe, you have frequent low clouds, rain, low visibility while the land itself is rather hilly/mountainous more often than not. Something that isn't exactly the best weather for low level flying, which is the main mission of F-104 in GAF (very low and very fast to deliver a tactical nuke wherever and whener ordered to) while, at the time, there was nothing around as automatic terrain following. In Australia, you have a tempered climate at the southern extremity, but otherwise, most of the country is rather dry and hot (more or less desert climate)
By: 30th July 2017 at 23:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I have a memory of German F104s appearing in Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising to Fuel Air bomb a bridge at low level?
By: 31st July 2017 at 03:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-the difference?In Australia, you have a tempered climate at the southern extremity, but otherwise, most of the country is rather dry and hot (more or less desert climate)
Australia's north is actually a tropical monsoonal climate. During the monsoon season the number and severity of storm activity is pretty severe. There are also frequent cyclones.
By: 31st July 2017 at 17:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-storm is one thing, in Europe the poor visibility and flying weather are much more frequent that storms.
When I played in Belgium, we had a young russian player that was recruited by mid season, he arrived from Moscow (nice continental climate with lots of very cold but sunny days in winter) for the new year... for the first 5 weeks the guy did not see the sun once... he was going crazy.. without him going nuts, I wouldn't even remember that year as the rest of us didn't even bother, being, finally, quite used to have grey skies, especially in winter.. the major difference between Belgium and Germany is that Belgium being closer to the North Sea, there isn't much cold and snow in winter.. it's rather about 10°C and wet.. in Germany, you have lower temperatures and more snow, but the clouds passing over us over here go east, to Germany...
By: 31st July 2017 at 19:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I remember a story where an entire flight of Invader was wiped out over England due to weather conditions. Hell, you won't say seriously that the A26 was a fighter trap! :D
By: 1st August 2017 at 08:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Great info. Thanks FBW
By: 1st August 2017 at 08:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Likewise, I was surprised to hear that Arnulf never had an incident.
Posts: 202
By: robyoung - 23rd July 2017 at 17:02 - Edited 2nd October 2019 at 11:40
Here is an interview with former GAF F-104 and F-4F pilot, Arnulf Hartl. It was filmed in his "tradition room" and also at Wittmund AFB. He chats about his time flying the two types from training, DACT and to being an instructor.
http://www.aircrewinterview.tv/#/arnulf-hartl-on-the-f104-starfighter/
Enjoy!
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