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Finnish fighter replacement revisited

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    #61
    8% preferred an indigenous design
    Just goes to show how ignorant and gullible the readers are.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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      #62
      Polish indigenous aviation industry is also driven underground; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVnGF8XbgcA
      If it looks good, it will fly good !
      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

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        #63
        That is not "driven underground", but "delusional"
        "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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          #64
          Well there seems to be different opinions about it. Painting an aeroplane black does not necessarily make an aeroplane stealth..that is for sure. But the lifting fuselage and the Mark Drela kinda approch to economy is interesting.
          If it looks good, it will fly good !
          -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


          http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

          Comment


            #65
            That thing looks like an SR-71 had it's way with a BD-5 and then was drawn by a caricature artist. It was supposed to combine STOL, lightweight, but also armored... all while being so small that one wonders where the fuel was supposed to be stored.

            Me thinks the designer went to work for Iran on the Qaher-313 after the Skorpion was canceled.
            "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

            Comment


              #66
              Fuel may be in the lifting fuselage.

              It worx in Kerbal so it must be valid; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPp4amk4pXw
              Last edited by topspeed; 8th May 2018, 07:01.
              If it looks good, it will fly good !
              -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


              http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

              Comment


                #67
                Well, that explains how they designed it... and why it was eventually canceled (somebody sobered up).
                "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                Comment


                  #68
                  They would have gotten better bang for the buck if they'd chosen 4 PBS TJ100 engines inside the lifting fuselage..like all other fighters have'em..inside.

                  http://www.pbsvb.com/customer-indust...urbojet-engine

                  Those engines generate together as much thrust as the Jumo 004 but weigh just 1/10th.
                  If it looks good, it will fly good !
                  -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                  http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                    #69
                    I'll tell you the same thing I did years ago when you were pushing your micro-fighter idea... If it was viable and cheap then "someone" would have done it already.
                    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 8th May 2018, 17:26.
                    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                    Comment


                      #70
                      I think I did hear that. Anyway I am working on the smallest jet ...ever. Still pretty huge load carrying beast. This works as a test bed for my space aeroplane. I just have to do everything to get the loaded weight vs empty weigh ratio beyond 4:1. It won't even have jet engines in a model ( 1/ 4 ). I "just" have to supercede every known aeroplane aspect ( weight, aerodynamics, material, construction etc ) by 10-20% to reach this goal.
                      If it looks good, it will fly good !
                      -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                      http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Finland hasn't had domestic fighter project since 1945. In the '70s it was considered designing a jet trainer to replace Fouga Magisters, but Vinka project showed that military aircraft design capability in the country was eroded too much and getting it back would be too costly in time and money.

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                          #72
                          The HX program is evolving in an unexpected manner in the way it is treated by media outlet, notably Helsingin Sanomat who mentions that the furnisher's security policy will be a factor in the procurement choice.

                          HS (or Yle) also made a comment such as "FinAF may have to reconsider its partnership with US in the future".

                          while such comment sound bold, they are not completely unreasonable. Acquiring F-35 would imply quite significant changes in Finland security policy (negative ones in my opinion) and I don't know if they would be ready for such.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            The importance of what the Finnish media says cannot be understated. There are hardly any journalists in Finland who have experience in defence matters, let alone military aviation. What they're mostly writing is based uninformed second hand sources on performance and cost and are speculative think pieces about implications to defence policies. They're opinion pieces, not news reports and they'll likely have zero effect on the procurement decision.

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                              #74
                              Given that the people's opinion is formed by the news that they are presented then what you said makes perfect sense when "8% preferred an indigenous design".
                              "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Yama is correct..there is not even a operator that is able to deliver an aeroplane....2 ventures are mingled in the battle but seem to have almost no sales..prototypes only.
                                If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                  #76
                                  Acquiring F-35 would imply quite significant changes in Finland security policy (negative ones in my opinion) and I don't know if they would be ready for such.
                                  The Ilmavoimat combat force is entirely composed of US F/A-18C/Ds for more than two decades, the munitions of those jets are entirely american. I fail to see in what way the acquisition of another American jet to replace the Hornet would impact Finland "security policy".
                                  sigpic

                                  Comment


                                    #77
                                    The Ilmavoimat combat force is entirely composed of US F/A-18C/Ds for more than two decades, the munitions of those jets are entirely american. I fail to see in what way the acquisition of another American jet to replace the Hornet would impact Finland "security policy".
                                    ALIS...

                                    Comment


                                      #78
                                      Finland has also taken the lead of part of the C/D user community in software mods for those retaining the old 1553 set of processor (if my mem stands right).

                                      Significantly, their recent upgrade does not lack any of the prime assets in weapon capability branded as being what's make a good 4th+ gen fighter.



                                      Notice the fully loaded high alt/high alpha short sequence at the end.

                                      Here is the Aviationist take on the subject
                                      Last edited by TomcatViP; 9th May 2018, 11:33.

                                      Comment


                                        #79
                                        That thing looks like an SR-71 had it's way with a BD-5 and then was drawn by a caricature artist. It was supposed to combine STOL, lightweight, but also armored... all while being so small that one wonders where the fuel was supposed to be stored.

                                        Me thinks the designer went to work for Iran on the Qaher-313 after the Skorpion was canceled.
                                        Unlike the Qaher-313, the Skorpion was a serious design, think of Burt Rutans ARES.
                                        The Polish Air Force made a tender for a small battlefield suport aircraft, it would be a subsonic, short range, STOL design, main job would be CAS and recon, two design teams answered, PZL with multiple iterations of the "SKorpion", the initial versions were equiped with a pair of turboprops, and the Instytut Lotnictwa (IL) Kobra 2000. Lack of funds stopped the competition.
                                        (you can see the design of the Kobra in this video, from minute ten onward)

                                        By the late eighties, beggining of the nineties there was no end of small battlefield suport designs, Burt Rutans ARES, BAE SABA, Aeroprogress T720, Vought ATLAS, Skorpion, etc, not one entered front line service.

                                        Cheers
                                        Last edited by Sintra; 9th May 2018, 11:48.
                                        sigpic

                                        Comment


                                          #80
                                          ALIS...
                                          In what particular way would the use of ALIS influence the security policies of a country that as of today has an air force in wich its entire armed combat cabability is american, not just the aircrafts, but every single munition or system?
                                          sigpic

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