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  • TomcatViP
    Rank 5 Registered User



    IAF, US air force conduct joint exercise 'Ex Cope India 2018'

    Ex Cope India showcases efforts and commitment of the two nations to build a free and open Indo-Pacific region.

    Around 200 men from the US Air Force with 15 aircraft from the 18th Wing, Kadena Air Base, Japan and 182nd Airlift Wing, Illinois Air National Guard will take part in the exercise alongside men from the Indian Air Force.

    While the air force of the United States (USAF) is participating with 12 X F15 C/D and 03 X C-130, the IAF is participating with the Su-30 MKI, Jaguar, Mirage 2000 , C-130J and AWACS aircraft.

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    • eagle
      Rank 5 Registered User

      Complete with a photo from Cope India 2004...
      How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
      Yngwie Malmsteen

      Comment

      • TomcatViP
        Rank 5 Registered User

        Well you can still contact the Author before the end of it
        https://www.jagranjosh.com/current-a...9-1543564863-1

        But this image has been re-used before in the context (2004-07-12-17...)
        ...
        Last edited by TomcatViP; 6th December 2018, 00:04.

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        • BlackArcher
          Rank 5 Registered User

          Military modernisation- IAF

          This article is written by serving IAF Air Marshal R Nambiar. Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. So much for all the motivated journos and naysayers.

          AUGUST 20, 2018by AIR MARSHAL R. NAMBIAR

          ...

          The Fighter Fleet

          Our future inductions are well known. We are buying the Rafale, which unfortunately is mired in controversy, all for the wrong reasons. As far as the Make in India plan goes, we are at the moment procuring the LCA Mk I. It is being purchased in two stages: We have the IOC (Initial Operational Clearance) variant, 20 of which were ordered in 2006, of which nine have been delivered and the remaining eleven, we believe will be delivered in the next two years. We have ordered another 20 LCAs, which are the FOC (Final Operational Clearance) variant, and these will be delivered after the IOC variant is complete. The LCA Mark I fleet, we have restricted to these 40 aircraft.

          Subsequent to the above, we intend to procure the Mark IA, which is an improved version of the LCA Mark I and has a new radar and advanced EW capabilities. It is, however, essentially the Mark I, with a few add ons. We have issued an RFP in December 2017, to get an additional 83 aircrafts of this type.

          It must be stated that the LCA Mark 1 and Mark 1A are very good aircraft. We recently conducted a major exercise called Gagan Shakti, and the LCA performed remarkably well. The best range scores and the best weapon delivery emerged from the nine LCAs we had fielded, which really worked wonders. This gives me the confidence to state that the LCA will see us through the next 20 years, if not more, in technological capability terms.

          The first squadron of the LCA, 45 Squadron, also called the Flying Daggers, has recently shifted from Bangalore, where they were being looked after by HAL to Sulur. They are now operating in a more operational scenario and are being put through the full spectrum of air operations as envisaged by the IAF.

          Our aircraft of the future, as we perceive it as of today, is the LCA Mark II. This aircraft, we believe, will replace the MiG 29 in the next ten years, the Jaguar in the next 15 years and the Mirage 2000 in the next 20 years. All combined, this adds up to a total of twelve squadrons.

          The requirements of the IAF for the LCA Mark II are centred on two crucial points. First, it has to be cutting edge, to the tune of its best electronic warfare capability and best weapons. As far as performance goes, we have pegged the performance to the level of the Mirage 2000, which is an aircraft already 35 years in our inventory. We are therefore not aiming for the moon, but for space at best. Therefore, our requirements have already been crystallised, our designers are at it, and given the fact that we have pitched ourselves at a level at which they are capable of generating and making, we will have an aircraft which will be in time in the next ten years or so.

          It will be the LCA Mark II and will be a different breed of aircraft probably bigger, probably more powerful and definitely capable of lifting much more load. We are envisaging an aircraft that can lift at least 6.5 tons of weapon load as compared to the LCA and LCA I which lifts about 3.8 tons.

          We are also looking at six squadrons of fighter aircraft through the strategic partner route. A lot of doubting Thomass doubt whether this will happen. We believe it will. We believe we require this aircraft to bridge over the fighter gap which we see happening in our inventory as the years go by. Our future is the Advance Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). This is not just wishful thinking. We have committed land, money and a lot of thought to this programme, and we believe that in the next 15 years, we will have the AMCA prototype, the NGTD1 (Next Generation Technology Demonstrator) and the NGTD 2 flying. We intend to have this aircraft in collaboration with the DRDO, with the Public Private Partnership model, flying out of Sulur by that date. We have broad concurrence from the government, the DRDO is on board and an expression of interest is already in the market for establishing a partnership for the AMCA.

          Our bottomline is to have indigenously built fighters which will form the bulk of the IAF inventory by 2032. Mark II of the LCA will be as many as 12 squadrons. That is how we envisage the IAF to be heading.


          ...
          Fascinating to read an article by a serving Air Marshal of the IAF, one who may go on to become the Air Chief Marshal. The indigenisation bent is clear and what is heartening to see is that the LCA is turning out to be an aircraft that the IAF is really loving. The fact that a fighter that has just entered service beats fighters like the Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000 and strike jets like the MiG-27 in range scores and weapons delivery is testament to the hard work put into perfecting its weapons computers' ground strike algorithms. The smooth entry into service and superb capabilities is what has changed the IAF's mind and made it so eager to adopt the LCA Mk2 as the medium fighter for the future.




          KH-2018 (LSP-08) taxying out for a test flight in night.
          Can see the aerial refueling probe on LSP-8 in this pic.
          Last edited by BlackArcher; 6th December 2018, 05:09.

          Comment

          • Austin
            Rank 5 Registered User

            It will be the LCA Mark II and will be a different breed of aircraft probably bigger, probably more powerful and definitely capable of lifting much more load. We are envisaging an aircraft that can lift at least 6.5 tons of weapon load as compared to the LCA and LCA I which lifts about 3.8 tons.


            I wonder how they can increase Mark 2 weapons load to 6.5 Tons without some change/ redesign of airframe , just a high thrust engine wont achieve this , they will need to recaliberate the FBW which would need long flight testing schedule
            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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            • Scooter
              Rank 5 Registered User

              Honestly, many are living in a dream world here. As the Indian Air Force is in near crisis. As her fighter strength continues to fall. While, much of what is left is old 4th Generation Fighters like the Jaguar, Mirage 2000, and Mig-29. (logistics alone would be a nightmare) In addition the LCA is far from entering service in any real numbers. Even then it's small size severely limits its performance, payload, and range. Which, hardly matters as by time they do get them in any real numbers. They will be nearly obsolete.


              As for the AMCA it is at the very beginning of development and even then it's doubtful it will be ready in 20 years. If, the LCA is any indication maybe 30. Honestly, only real bright spot is a couple hundred Su-30MKI's. Yet, if I was China and/or Pakistan you know what would be on the short-list to attack first!



              Also, before anybody brags about the Rafale. It will still be years before India get's the full 36 aircraft. Which, she would be lucky to have 20 available to fly combat at anyone giving time!



              This vs the threat from China and Pakistan and crisis maybe to kind of a word.....




              F-35 Lightning II

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              • bring_it_on
                2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                Originally posted by Austin
                I wonder how they can increase Mark 2 weapons load to 6.5 Tons without some change/ redesign of airframe , just a high thrust engine wont achieve this , they will need to recaliberate the FBW which would need long flight testing schedule
                That schedule (factoring in the capability) looks tight with very little slack unless they can have a demonstrator in the air by late 2019 or 2020 leaving just about 8 years for development, developmental and operational testing. The only relatively similar comparison could be the JAS-39 transition into the Echo variant where SAAB began flying their demonstrator around a decade ago and it will still take them some time to declare the Gripen-E fully operational. Realistically, the schedule is quite likely to slip into the 2030s unless the design team is already at a very advanced stage and is fabricating a flight test demonstrator.
                Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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                • Teer
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  Re: post 1526. Right, the AM of the IAF knows less about which aircraft the IAF needs as versus a random nobody on the internetz. Well, that kinda explains why AMs make the decisions and thank goodness for that.

                  Comment

                  • Teer
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    Bring it On, the LCA Mk2 is indeed at an advanced design stage. Its design was in line to be firmed up this year & fabrication is likely to begin with the next year.
                    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/64214939.cms

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                    • Teer
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      I'd also encourage everyone interested in the IAF to read the whole of AM Nambiars interview. It goes beyond the basic how many aircraft stuff into a detailed overview of the entire logistics and network centric advances the IAF is engaging in. From S-400s offering BMD cover along with an Indian system, to radar development, to new PGMs in development in specific for the IAF to datalinks and network centric ops. Its really the most comprehensive overview of the IAF in recent times.

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                      • XB-70
                        Rank 3 Registered User

                        "..we believe that in the next 15 years, we will have the AMCA prototype, the NGTD1 (Next Generation Technology Demonstrator) and the NGTD 2 flying."

                        At least they are now talking about a reasonable date. Fifteen years to prototype flight and around twenty to get it in service. It's going to be a long term goal for them and not something 'soon'.

                        Austin - The quote you give mentions that the LCA II will likely be "bigger" and thus the airframe will change. And, yes, the Indian Aerospace Industry got its work cut out for them if they are really going to meet intended schedule.

                        Comment

                        • bring_it_on
                          2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                          Bring it On, the LCA Mk2 is indeed at an advanced design stage. Its design was in line to be firmed up this year & fabrication is likely to begin with the next year.
                          Thanks for the link. Assuming the first prototype flies in the 2020-2022 time-frame you are looking at the early 2030s in terms of operational capability given the task ahead building reasonable slack into the schedule and assuming that they stick to the capabilities mentioned in #1494, and not accounting for any major hiccups. What I can see with the capability requirement, I don't see 2028 operational capability as a realistic goal but that's just my opinion.
                          Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                          Comment

                          • Blitzo
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            Thanks for the link. Assuming the first prototype flies in the 2020-2022 time-frame you are looking at the early 2030s in terms of operational capability given the task ahead building reasonable slack into the schedule and assuming that they stick to the capabilities mentioned in #1494, and not accounting for any major hiccups. What I can see with the capability requirement, I don't see 2028 operational capability as a realistic goal but that's just my opinion.
                            I think if the IAF does not revise and add on additional capabilities as it is developed, and if air force and industry can bring together the lessons learned from Tejas so far and apply it properly to Mk II then 2028 is not impossible, if a little optimistic.


                            -----


                            In any case it seems like the Tejas is shaping up to be the IAF's mainstay light/light-medium weight fighter for the next few decades, and as a replacement for Mig-21, Jaguar, Mig-29 and Mirage 2000 it should perform fine in that role.



                            I'm more interested in what will become of the IAF's 5th gen ambitions. After all this time I don't know what's happening with FGFA and I'm sort of afraid to ask, but it seems like the IAF is not currently involved in that capacity and will probably be looking to purchase Su-57 as an export aircraft once it meets IAF requirements?
                            At this stage there doesn't seem to be any active IAF procurement or programme that will see a 5th gen capability introduced in the IAF within the next 5 years; the AMCA's NGTD prototypes are stated in the previous interview to make their first flights in 15 years -- i.e.: the early 2030s. Assuming a very generous 5 year development schedule (!), that means AMCA will be introduced in the late 2030s at the very earliest. In reality, development might take anywhere up to 10 years.

                            I assume the IAF will not wait for AMCA to be the first 5th gen capability it acquires, as that would be far too late. But that interview doesn't mention anything about a roadmap for 5th gen capability or anything about Su-57, so it's all a bit strange.
                            Last edited by Blitzo; 7th December 2018, 00:39.

                            Comment

                            • rkumar
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              Although it will be nice to have a 5th gen fighter, we don't require it right now. In 5-10 years down the line, there might be a direct competition between Su-57 vs F-35.

                              Assuming in 5 years - Su-57 is inducted with some urgent Indian requirements and urgent F-35 deliveries are done to NATO members. So we will not see any 5th gen fighter in an Indian active duty earliest 2027-30ish.

                              The USA might have an advantage over Russia if they offer F-35 with right conditions i.e. zero strings attached. It will also help the USA against
                              - China - supporting a regional strong opponent
                              - Russia - cutting down $$ and experience following to Russia

                              Comment

                              • Teer
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...enous-fighters

                                With the India-Russia fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) project showing little signs of moving ahead, it is the twin-engine, stealthy Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program that the Indian Air Force is now looking at as a replacement for the Sukhoi Su-30s, which will start showing their age by then, noted Nambier. He said that the air force has put its money where its mouth is and has already released a facility in Coimbatore in South India to the Defence Research Development Organisation to start work on two AMCA technology demonstrators. In the meantime, the Minister of Defense, Nirmala Sitharaman, confirmed to Parliament the feasibility study for the development of AMCA had already been completed.

                                While optimistic about the project, Ashis Kumar Ghosh, the AMCA project director, said that there have been numerous challenges. AMCA is in the fifth-gen, 25-ton weight category, to be operated stealthy and with internal weaponry. The most important is developing the technology indigenously while retaining common design drivers, yet being different. We would like to fly with a readily available engine, and the swing role has to be performed, as asked for by the air force. He added that an increase in survivability was planned with stealth, electronic warfare, and performance.

                                Realization of the plan is to first fly two technology demonstrators of a fifth-generation aircraft. Once the airframe is ready and flown, we will start to add others in a phased manner. This helps in de-risking the program as we can start work on different aspects simultaneously. He added that a quality, skilled manufacturing ecosystem was essential for the AMCA to be built. Vendors, he said, would be dealing with a high geometric complexity. Too many requirements are required for stealth. If you cannot maintain proper tolerances, it becomes a challenge.

                                As the first of 36 Rafales are delivered from September next year until 2022, an official indicated that Dassault Aviation could likely be given an additional order in later years, as they would most likely be cheaper. With two squadrons established at different bases in India, and able to absorb additional aircraft, there would be no further need to equip additional bases with the necessary tooling and equipment.


                                Comment

                                • halloweene
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  LCA MKIA on the way

                                  https://www.strategicfront.org/forum...xkts-jpg.3728/

                                  Comment

                                  • haavarla
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    For the Gazzilion time already, it has been utterly clear IAF will never again see the number of standing Sq it once had. So why use this as any benchmark anymore is beyond me.. Take a quick look around, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgia, etc etc, and you see the same development. All AF around the world is shrinking. Even US of Murica
                                    Thanks

                                    Comment

                                    • Teer
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      The IAF doesn't agree and if the Indian economy picks up in Modi's 2nd term, they will get their way with more airframes. Whether they should be splurging on 4th gen airframes when the F-35 is available and being inducted, is a different question though....

                                      Comment

                                      • JSR
                                        JSR
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        There is no firm engine order for GE engines. and GE already sold industrial engine division. once F-18 production closed.. there is highly like F414 engine production will be closed down.
                                        In Trade war GE will have to compete with limited industrial workers that will making consumer goods.
                                        India is buying Rafale with no prospect of engine upgrades and hypersonic weopons. Modi is complete failure as far as R&D and procurement.

                                        Comment

                                        • bring_it_on
                                          2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                                          The 404/414 family production isn't ending anytime soon. Common sense would dictate that the USN's F/A-18E/F and MQ-25 programs, SAAB's Gripen, India's LCA, ROKAF's T-50 and KF-X and the USAF's T-X will keep production, sustainment and upgrades going along nicely for a long time.
                                          Last edited by bring_it_on; 7th December 2018, 19:53.
                                          Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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