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Indian Air Force Thread 21

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    I thought India and Pakistan have a pact not to target each others nuclear assets in any potential conflict, or is that solely restricted to fixed nuclear plants?

    Would be interesting to hear further details about how the IAF would seek and destroy mobile missiles, considering that even the USAF had a tough time in Iraq, and even the Israelis were not able to locate and destroy mobile rockets of the Hezbollah in South Lebanon, and both of those cases were in permissive air space with complete air dominance.

    In any case, it seems the IAF chief's warning regarding a dual front and strikes on Pakistan's nuclear strikes is in response to the recent Shaheen VI exercise in China, with around 20 PAF aircraft.



      And how your question is related to the difference between AESA and PESA designs and their working principles??? Huh?!



        My question is not related to the differences between Aesa and Pesa.
        I wanted to know the scanning angles of Bars to find out whether it is possible for the Sukhoi pilot to fly perpendicular and away from the targeted aircraft after a bvraam launch while at the same time provide mid course guidance or illumination to the missile. In this way the aircraft won't have to enter the engagement envelope of his opponents aam. A scanning angle of 90 degrees make s this possible.


          Arihant, yes Irbis has some tactical tricks it is capable of due to its crazy mechanical and electronic scan angles:

          You can fly parallel to a border and use the radar as if you are intruding into their airspace.



            Arihant was asking about Bars, not Irbis.


            Actually, Bars has pretty small scanning sector, despite of its gimbaled antenna - 70*(azimuth) @ 40*(elevation).

            For comparison, even the good old Zaslon, with its fixed antenna, has a sector of 60*@35*.


              Originally posted by Scar
              WTH "hybrid" you all talking about?! PESA is PESA is a single emmiter with multiple phase-inverters. AESA is antenna composed by multiple transmitters, each with it's own emmiter and phase inverter.
              To my understanding, in the classic PESA such as AN/APQ-164 or N007 Zaslon, all antenna elements are connected to a single transmitter receiver.

              Last edited by MSphere; 6th October 2017, 13:47.


                The 85th Airforce day official movie.

                For the very first time we get a glimpse of the Smart Anti airfield weapon SAAW being developed by Drdo. Captive carriage and release trials of Ngarm from a Su-30MKI is seen.
                The new generation anti radiation missile is a variant of the Astra bvraam. It supposedly weighs 140 kgs and has a range of 100 km when launched from altitude. It has an indigenously developed wide band passive seeker. It will be test launched soon within this year itself.


                1.Designed and developed in the country, the 120-kg class smart weapon is used to destroy runways, bunkers, aircraft hangers and other reinforced structures.

                2Its long standoff range of 100 km will allow the IAF to hit adversary airfields with high precision from a safe distance.

                3."The captive and release trials were tracked by radar and telemetry ground stations at the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur in Odisha during the entire duration of the flight. The performance of all systems was satisfactory with all mission objectives achieved," said the release.
                The lightweight high-precision guided bomb is one of the world class weapons systems.

                4.The government sanctioned the Rs 56.58 crore SAAW project in September 2013.

       May, the DRDO conducted the first test on the weapon system from the IAF Jaguar DARIN-II aircraft in Bengaluru in Karnataka.

                6.The test was carried out by IAF's Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE).
                The trial mode mounting of the SAAW on Jaguar DARIN-II aircraft is manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

                7. Drdo again successfully tested the weapon on 24th Dec, 2016 at ITR in Orissa.

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                Saaw is our desi SDB-2. It is very similar to the Spice 250 in design.

                NGARM- Dare to emit.

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                The Astra bvraam has evolved into the Drdo QRSAM and the Ngarm. The QRSAM airframe is a bit different though.

                One important thing to note is that the S-400 system has been shown in this official 85 th anniversary movie. Only weapon systems and platforms which are in service and those for which the contract has been signed are featured in here. This implies that S-400 contractual and financial negotiations are almost complete and contract signature will take place soon. It's an almost done deal.

                Fgfa is absent in this movie which is worrying.
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Arihant; 6th October 2017, 15:14.


                  To my understanding, in the classic PESA such as AN/APQ-164 or N007 Zaslon, all antenna elements are connected to a single transmitter receiver.
                  And how Irbis is differening from them?! Same PESA, with a single emmiter and multiple passive elements of array - phase inverters. In contrast to the active elements of AESA each of those is a little radar by itself - with its own emmiter and reciever.


                    @ Alpha Bravo's post #501:

                    When fighting despicable opponents that hide launchers among civilians, because they hold human life in such low regard, the solution was to not target them with bombing. Don't just assume they were not located.
                    Last edited by MadRat; 6th October 2017, 15:53.
                    Go Huskers!


                      An IAF Mi-17V5 today crashed north of Tawang while on a routine air maintenance sortie. 7 crew lost their lives. Rather unfortunate that a helicopter would crash just hours before Airforce day resulting in the death of the entire crew.




                        the NG-ARM air launched anti-radiation missile news is really welcome news. It is clearly based on the Astra BVRAAM design, but significantly larger. We're also likely to see the NG-ARM integrated with the Tejas fleet and in the future, the Rafale fleet as well.


                          The Teja would gain a fantastic attractivity.


                            Yes and the SAAW based air to ground munition is also very likely to be integrated with the Tejas. being a 120 kg class weapon, it can be carried on double racks, allowing for a good standoff PGM strike capability in addition to the existing LGBs.


                              It wasn't known earlier that the Spice 2000 PGM had been integrated and tested on the Su-30MKI as well. It was thought of as being integrated only with the Mirage-2000


                                Beautiful. Perfect platform for this weapon.


                                  @ Blackarcher,

                                  The mockup of Drdo Ngarm that was shown some time back had the exact same dimensions as the Astra Bvraam. The actual missile also doesn't seem to be longer than the Astra.

                                  As for the Saaw, four will be carried per hardpoint. It will be integrated on the Sukhoi Su-30 MKI and Tejas besides Jaguar.


                                    If you see the image of the Su-30MKI that was carrying the NG-ARM, it was obvious that it was significantly larger in diameter than the Astra BVRAAM.

                                    Astra BVRAAM on Su-30MKI

                                    NG-ARM on Su-30MKI
                                    Last edited by BlackArcher; 10th October 2017, 20:02.


                                      @BlackArcher, The Ngarm is significantly larger in diameter than the Astra. But it seems to be similar in length to the Astra.
                                      The Ngarm surely weighs more than 140 kgs. More like upwards of 200 kgs. I remember the IAF complaining about the missile being over weight. Now things add up.

                                      The missile was supposed to be launched for the first time in Sept. The Brahmos - A was supposed. To have its first launch in August. Things are beyond schedule now.

                                      How many Jaguar, Bison and MiG-27 squadrons do we have now? I am confused about the numbers.
                                      Is it 5 or 6 for Jaguars?
                                      3 MiG-27?
                                      And are there any M / MF squadrons active now?


                                        As per this article that was written in March 2017, only 2 IAF squadrons now fly the MiG-21M, No.35 'Rapiers' and No.108 'Hawkeyes'. I would expect these squadrons to be re-equipped with new jets soon. Either Tejas or Su-30MKI.

                                        As per a BRF poster, No.18 'Flying Bullets' will be the second Rafale squadron, after No.17 'Golden Arrows'. No.18 squadron was number plated in April 2016, with their MiG-27MLs being retired. As of now, there are 2 MiG-27UPG (upgraded) squadrons, No.10 'Daggers' and No.29 'Scorpions', both being based at Jodhpur AFS. Am not sure if any MiG-27MLs still fly or not or have been moved to reserve status pending retirement. All MiG-27MLs and MiG-27UPGs are slated to be retired in the next 2-3 years.

                                        As for Jaguars, there are 6 operational squadrons.

                                        These are the IAF's Jaguar squadrons- No.5 'Tuskers', No.6 'Dragons', No.14 'Bulls', No.16 'Black Cobras', No.27 'Flaming Arrows' and No.224 'Warlords'. No.224 'Warlords' is the latest Jaguar squadron, having re-equipped after retiring its MiG-23MFs that were last used as target tugs. They also have the youngest Jaguar fleet in the IAF, having been equipped with the Jaguar IS that were built by HAL in 2009.

                                        No.6 'Dragons' squadron, based at Jamnagar, flies a mix of Jaguar IS and IM and are tasked with maritime interdiction as one of their primary roles.


                                          Thanks Blackarcher.

                                          Most sources say there are 3 MiG-27 squadrons which are currently active. Either one of No 22 Swifts and No 222 Tigersharks is operational.

                                          Regarding No 224 Warlords, do they have the full complement of 18 Jaguars IS/IB? Jags manufactured in 2009 and after that are mostly the IB variant.

                                          Do you have any pictures of No 9 Wolfpack Mirage? If so can you post them?

                                          Regarding the news of 33 squadrons in IAF against the desired 42, I think the media and most news agencies are off by 1 or 2.

                                          The squadron count is -

                                          MiG-21 - 8 squardrons
                                          MiG-27- 3 squadrons
                                          MiG-29 3 squadrons
                                          Mirage 2000- 3 squadrons
                                          Jaguar - 6 squadrons
                                          Su-30- 11 squadrons
                                          Tejas - 1

                                          This pic is from 3 years back. It was uploaded by Prasun Sengupta in a post in Trishul trident on March 30,2014.Click image for larger version

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                                          Last edited by Arihant; 16th October 2017, 14:35.