Can we rank engines?

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Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 151

We seem to have problems ranking which aircraft is generally superior to one another but what about the engines that power them? Can we be less biased about their engines?

J79 vs R-11/R13

F-110 vs AL-31

RD-33 vs F-404

F119 vs AL-41

I picked ones that were in the same general catagory. Can we at all on the best qualities of each compared to the other? If you could,would you swap one for the other in their respective aircraft?

Any others?

Original post

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

seems fun but how would one go about evaluating them?

fuel consumption?
unit costs?
life span?
thrust?

Member for

15 years 5 months

Posts: 6,983

thrust:weight ratio and durability

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 151

I think what would be fair would be if you had an aircraft that would take either engine...what advantages/disadvantages would it have? We could compare anything, even cost. Sure you could put a an F-119 in it and it would be superior in (insert opinions here) but it would cost 5 times as much over the AL-41 over its life. Or maybe not because you claim the F119 ultimately costs less to operate...or does it?

That might bring up situations like the F-20 Tigershark. Two cheap J85's or one expensive F-404? Wow, this could end up being a real hairball if you go that route...a $10 airplane with a Cabillion dollar engine.

Maybe the basics of thrust, weight ratio and durability would be best in our test aircraft...as suggested.

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9 years 4 months

Posts: 269


J79 vs R-11/R13
F-110 vs AL-31
RD-33 vs F-404
F119 vs AL-41

winners are j79, f-110, rd33, and fl119

Member for

12 years 1 month

Posts: 4,168

We seem to have problems ranking which aircraft is generally superior to one another but what about the engines that power them? Can we be less biased about their engines?

J79 vs R-11/R13

F-110 vs AL-31

RD-33 vs F-404

F119 vs AL-41

I picked ones that were in the same general catagory. Can we at all on the best qualities of each compared to the other? If you could,would you swap one for the other in their respective aircraft?

Any others?

intently forgot RR and snecma engines? (R199, M53 etc.)

Member for

9 years 9 months

Posts: 1,765

Even more difficult to made a comparison as Western and Soviet engines during the Cold War responded at two opposite logistical models, former were and still are conceived to be continuously overhauled while the latter were thought to be scrapped and replaced by new ones once a certain numbers of flight hours was reached.
Soviet system went way further to that, even the fighters were conceived to be stored away and replaced by a newer one once they have just a certain amount of flight hours left instead of going through a mid life update.

Such system worked well until Soviet economy collapsed and the dramatical fall of operational readiness of the reborn Russian air force during the nineties was determined also by such a model, involving the whole production system and not just a branch of the military.

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 151

Perhaps the philosophies are far different but now and then there emerges a rumor of the mongrelization of an aircraft, like when Iran was rumored to be considering re-engining their F14's with AL-31's. Or the realization of the J79 in a Mirage. The ideas are always intriguing. Sorta like hot rodding engine swaps.

I'm not sure a J-79 could be put in a Mig 21 or if it could, would it be better or worse?

Member for

9 years 9 months

Posts: 1,765

Perhaps the philosophies are far different but now and then there emerges a rumor of the mongrelization of an aircraft, like when Iran was rumored to be considering re-engining their F14's with AL-31's. Or the realization of the J79 in a Mirage. The ideas are always intriguing. Sorta like hot rodding engine swaps.

I'm not sure a J-79 could be put in a Mig 21 or if it could, would it be better or worse?

The J79 on a Mirage is called IAI Kfir and worked well.
Actually there were many of such , how you call them, mongrelizations: UK F-4 with Spey, turkish F-4 terminator, F-14D.
Proposal to overhaul former soviet planes installing a russian made turbofan engine was proposed but AFAIK never put in practice.
Passing from a eastern to a western made one and vice versa was never done, probably for my above considerations.

Let's aspect instead a whole lot of such mongrelization on Chinese planes as soon as they begin to produce acceptable domestic engines.

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 151

I always thought that if a J-79 was a good idea in a Mirage then a J-79 was likely a good idea in a Mig-21. WIth the sea of Mig-21's in the world, would it not be a good idea to provide an additional source of engines for them? I realize it is certainly not a simple solution but it may be a reasonable one.

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17 years 7 months

Posts: 4,951

Only that you wouldn't have the proper gearbox, alternator, starter location, access points in the body for service, etc.

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

intently forgot RR and snecma engines? (R199, M53 etc.)

I quite like European engines
especially the ones in the Eurofighter and the M53.

which engine did Turkey and South Korea decide on for their stealth fighter?