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By: 20th October 2016 at 04:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-decline in each generation.
French make good airplanes but they are expensive. there are no market for large two engine French fighters.
It would've been better they made a Gripen type of fighter. instead of selling 84 Rafales, they could have sold perhaps 200-300.
heavier aircraft needs could be imported from the US by France. it might sound insulting to the French, but under this scheme, way more French planes would have been sold.
something like this. a lighter single fighter. way more demand from most air forces in the world. more money.
maybe longer range strike needs or carrier needs couuld have been met by importing F-18 or F-35. they would only need maybe 36 or so. but they would sell a hundred or two more of this single engine light fighter than if they stuck with Rafale.
By: 20th October 2016 at 07:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-decline in each generation.
French make good airplanes but they are expensive. there are no market for large two engine French fighters.It would've been better they made a Gripen type of fighter. instead of selling 84 Rafales, they could have sold perhaps 200-300.
heavier aircraft needs could be imported from the US by France. it might sound insulting to the French, but under this scheme, way more French planes would have been sold.
something like this. a lighter single fighter. way more demand from most air forces in the world. more money.
maybe longer range strike needs or carrier needs couuld have been met by importing F-18 or F-35. they would only need maybe 36 or so. but they would sell a hundred or two more of this single engine light fighter than if they stuck with Rafale.
Issue being before export, French ambition to service and meet their own Air force requirements. old time where Dassault could start project on their own funds for export purpose are long gone.And France try to retain their independence, so buying to US or other countries the plane they need is a no go, if it can be avoided.
By: 20th October 2016 at 10:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Following calculated by subtracting all French AF orders from total produced. Is this accurate? What numbers do you guys have1074 Mirage III
532 Mirage V
474 Mirage F.1
286 Mirage 2000
84 Rafale
Mystere family (india)? Falcons (not civilians)? you should ask directly to dassault PR dept, they are nice ppl.
By: 20th October 2016 at 12:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Mystere family (india)? Falcons (not civilians)? you should ask directly to dassault PR dept, they are nice ppl.
Indeed.
Ouragan, India = 71 + 33 taken from AdlA stock, Israel = 46 + 24 also from french stock.
Mystère IV , India = 110, Israel = 59.
Super Mystère B2, Israel = 24 (?)
Can add also the Jaguar and Atlantic after dassault took over Breguet... ?
By: 20th October 2016 at 16:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Also 14 Super-Étendard to Argentina.
By: 20th October 2016 at 18:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Can add also the Jaguar and Atlantic after dassault took over Breguet... ?
Not the Jag, at least not two of the exports. The Indian and Oman Jag exports were entirely a British thing, facing stiff oposition from Dassault, the Peruvian and Nigerian exports i dont have data on them.
Cheers
By: 20th October 2016 at 19:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I think you can add also the Alpha jet (329 exports).
By: 20th October 2016 at 21:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Not the Jag, at least not two of the exports. The Indian and Oman Jag exports were entirely a British thing, facing stiff oposition from Dassault, the Peruvian and Nigerian exports i dont have data on them.Peru did not use Jags, that was Ecuador.. Nevertheless, it's not important who has negotiated the order, the workshare for Dassault-Breguet was still roughly the same.. BTW, all exported Jags were built to International standard which was based on British layout..Cheers
By: 20th October 2016 at 22:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Rafale numbers look high for present exports, not sure that there have been many yet, a few have gone to Egypt, out of their initial order for 24, the Aeronavale have had two tranches of planes the initial batch of F1s and the newer batch, hard to see where the other 70 or so went to.
Egypt : 24
Qatar : 24
India : 36
total :84
Aeronavale got 4 tranches of planes
Tranche 1 : 10 aircrafts (F1 standard, retrofit to F3 in progress)
Tranche 2 : 16 aircrafts (F2 standard, retrofited to F3 in 2009 )
Tranche 3 : 12 aircrafts (F3 standard)
Tranche 4 : 10 aircrafts (F3O-4T standard)
By: 21st October 2016 at 06:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Egypt : 24
Qatar : 24
India : 36
total :84Aeronavale got 4 tranches of planes
Tranche 1 : 10 aircrafts (F1 standard, retrofit to F3 in progress)
Tranche 2 : 16 aircrafts (F2 standard, retrofited to F3 in 2009 )
Tranche 3 : 12 aircrafts (F3 standard)
Tranche 4 : 10 aircrafts (F3O-4T standard)
thanks, yes, that is how I calculated the Rafale numbers.
By: 25th October 2016 at 09:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-decline in each generation.
French make good airplanes but they are expensive. there are no market for large two engine French fighters.It would've been better they made a Gripen type of fighter. instead of selling 84 Rafales, they could have sold perhaps 200-300.
heavier aircraft needs could be imported from the US by France. it might sound insulting to the French, but under this scheme, way more French planes would have been sold.
something like this. a lighter single fighter. way more demand from most air forces in the world. more money.
maybe longer range strike needs or carrier needs couuld have been met by importing F-18 or F-35. they would only need maybe 36 or so. but they would sell a hundred or two more of this single engine light fighter than if they stuck with Rafale.
Agree, Rafale too expensive, even from spec look weak ... from F15/F18/F16 the fly away price 10-20% cheaper than rafale. next 2-3 year F-35 possible cheaper than Rafale too. so who want buy it. Also smart boom/AA missile also expensive than US made. if Rafale sell about flying away price USD75 million than possible get more export. 4-5 later year Rafale almost hard to sell anymore went stealth figther start popular in market. maybe Dassault can consider design stealth plane, just design stealth body in side can use latest Rafale system.
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By: Y-20 Bacon - 19th October 2016 at 19:53
Following calculated by subtracting all French AF orders from total produced. Is this accurate? What numbers do you guys have
1074 Mirage III
532 Mirage V
474 Mirage F.1
286 Mirage 2000
84 Rafale