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  • Inst
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Apr 2009
    • 189

    @Lev-sha:

    Matters like materials, drag, and intake design matter as well. In practice, an eight-fold increase in thrust is needed to generate a doubling of speed provided that the other factors don't cut things out. From what I've read the F-14D's bigger problem was the fixed inlets; these were designed for the TF40 and didn't generate enough gas velocity for the GE engines.

    @Deino:

    I mean the consensus on SDF is that the J-20 is just the Chinese version of the F-22, when even the F-22 is outmoded against F-35s in large numbers. Definitely, some of the arguments I use are recycled from the last time around, but the habit of groupthink on SDF isn't healthy and it's just creating a mirror image of Western partisans who play up their own planes.

    The other thing I'll point out is that discussing things for the purpose of discussing them is somewhat the point of a message board, isn't it?

    The age old argument is rather simple. On one hand, you have people who point to design documents about the J-20 and official communications and claim the J-20 must be an air superiority fighter because an air superiority fighter is sexy. The counter argument treat demonstrated performance by the J-20 (22.5-30 degree / sec instantaneous turn performance at around 1500-5000 meters) as more important and notes that the J-20 is currently underpowered,

    ====

    This tends to not to go anywhere because of entrenched biases. Skeptical Westerners tend to question the difference between the J-20 and the Iranian Qaher 313 stealth demonstrator; i.e, if the 313 is a fake, the J-20 must be as well. The China-watching community, often ethnic Chinese, treats the status of "air superiority fighter" as extremely prestigious and takes claims that the J-20 is not an air superiority fighter as an affront.

    I'm pointing out, in contrast, that a heavyweight air superiority fighter in the age of stealth and advanced WVR missiles (even the Chinese PL-10 claims to be able to do 360-degree engagements) is an anachronism and that the Chinese, if they're being reasonable, are not designing it for such purposes.

    Comment

    • QuantumFX
      What?
      • Dec 2008
      • 1833

      JL-10A?, J-20 prototype with drop tanks, J-20

      Larger-


      Larger-


      Larger-


      Larger-


      Larger-

      Comment

      • Deino
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2000
        • 4229

        There are various reports from several wallclimbers stating, that both J20s and J10Cs were spotted at CAC with WS-10 engines.
        ...

        He was my North, my South, my East and West,
        My working week and my Sunday rest,
        My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
        I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

        The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
        Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
        Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
        For nothing now can ever come to any good.
        -------------------------------------------------
        W.H.Auden (1945)

        Comment

        • XB-70
          Rank 4 Registered User
          • May 2018
          • 366

          There are various reports from several wallclimbers stating, that both J20s and J10Cs were spotted at CAC with WS-10 engines.
          That could be a good thing or a bad thing for the J-20. Good in that they can start building and fly as many J-20s as they want. Bad in that it might mean a Ws-15 flight is still a ways out.

          Nothing but good news for the J-10 though.

          Comment

          • mig-31bm
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Oct 2013
            • 2110

            Can someone tell me if the Dark sword UCAV program still alive? Or is it terminated? Any recent information?

            Comment

            • Deino
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 4229

              Finally a clear image of the IFR-capable H-6N (?) here loaded with two KD-63 LACMs and two KD-20 ALCMs. (images via inSky_1865 &
              @OedoSoldier)

              https://mobile.twitter.com/Rupprecht...88290156994560
              ...

              He was my North, my South, my East and West,
              My working week and my Sunday rest,
              My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
              I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

              The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
              Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
              Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
              For nothing now can ever come to any good.
              -------------------------------------------------
              W.H.Auden (1945)

              Comment

              • moon_light
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • May 2012
                • 1033

                Originally posted by Deino View Post
                Finally a clear image of the IFR-capable H-6N (?) here loaded with two KD-63 LACMs and two KD-20 ALCMs. (images via inSky_1865 &
                @OedoSoldier)

                https://mobile.twitter.com/Rupprecht...88290156994560
                If my memory served,H-6 can launch a version of DF-21, can anyone confirm?

                Comment

                • QuantumFX
                  What?
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 1833

                  Originally posted by moon_light View Post
                  If my memory served,H-6 can launch a version of DF-21, can anyone confirm?
                  Yes. H-6N is the ASBM carrier. At least one ASBM is DF-21 derived.

                  Comment

                  • Deino
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 4229



                    Click image for larger version

Name:	J-20A 7x - 20190902.jpg
Views:	1461
Size:	78.5 KB
ID:	3872553
                    ...

                    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                    My working week and my Sunday rest,
                    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                    -------------------------------------------------
                    W.H.Auden (1945)

                    Comment

                    • haavarla
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 6715

                      That pic is telling. stuff is happening
                      Thanks

                      Comment

                      • Deino
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 4229

                        Another one

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	J-20A 7x - 20190902 - 2.jpg
Views:	1214
Size:	191.5 KB
ID:	3872620

                        ...

                        He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                        My working week and my Sunday rest,
                        My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                        I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                        The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                        Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                        Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                        For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                        -------------------------------------------------
                        W.H.Auden (1945)

                        Comment

                        • J-20
                          Rank 4 Registered User
                          • Jan 2018
                          • 256

                          Originally posted by Deino View Post


                          Click image for larger version

Name:	J-20A 7x - 20190902.jpg
Views:	1461
Size:	78.5 KB
ID:	3872553
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	fetch?id=3872251&d=1567155177.jpg
Views:	1087
Size:	226.3 KB
ID:	3872622

                          Xi Jinping saw this picture and told Putin... okay we see your 4 stealth jets on the ground! how about I raise this ..now how about our 7 stealth jets in the sky?

                          Xijingping: off to bomb Hong Kong!

                          Comment

                          • XB-70
                            Rank 4 Registered User
                            • May 2018
                            • 366

                            Xijingping: off to bomb Hong Kong!
                            Every self-styled superpower has to beat up on a Grenada every once in a while to remind people who's the boss.

                            Comment

                            • Deino
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2000
                              • 4229

                              Seems as if either the FC-31V2 is now painted grey or it is a new prototype.... (via CJDBY)

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	20190904_172256.jpg
Views:	948
Size:	33.9 KB
ID:	3872684
                              ...

                              He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                              My working week and my Sunday rest,
                              My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                              I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                              The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                              Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                              Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                              For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                              -------------------------------------------------
                              W.H.Auden (1945)

                              Comment

                              • J-20
                                Rank 4 Registered User
                                • Jan 2018
                                • 256

                                Originally posted by Deino View Post
                                Seems as if either the FC-31V2 is now painted grey or it is a new prototype.... (via CJDBY)

                                Click image for larger version

Name:	20190904_172256.jpg
Views:	948
Size:	33.9 KB
ID:	3872684
                                I think probably painted GRAY.

                                the V2 of before was always flying naked like you.

                                so it finally got something on!

                                Comment

                                • ClanWarrior
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2007
                                  • 306

                                  Originally posted by J-20 View Post

                                  I think probably painted GRAY.

                                  the V2 of before was always flying naked like you.

                                  so it finally got something on!
                                  Pity the photo was not much more clearer than it is, makes it hard to see.

                                  Comment

                                  • Deino
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2000
                                    • 4229

                                    Better image of the H-6N

                                    Click image for larger version

Name:	H-6N 55032 - CTC bomber brigade - strange - 20190906 - inSky1965 - mod.jpg
Views:	761
Size:	176.6 KB
ID:	3872757
                                    ...

                                    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                                    My working week and my Sunday rest,
                                    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                                    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                                    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                                    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                                    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                                    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                                    -------------------------------------------------
                                    W.H.Auden (1945)

                                    Comment

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