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  • QuantumFX
    What?

    Su-35 officially in!

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/961199545437876225


    Comment

    • Vans
      Rank 5 Registered User

      I am surprised they did not give it the standard all grey paint.

      how long will it be before we see some new J-xx variant that is a copy of the su-35?

      Comment

      • totoro
        Rank 5 Registered User

        They have the paint job of the aggressor training squadron.

        Comment

        • KGB
          KGB
          Senior Member

          China just pwned the Philippines there.
          the International Court gave jurisdiction of that specific island to the Philippines, and China just disregarded it and did its thing.
          Shows how powerless a world court can be.
          The US made all the rules and set up shop in the area after the war. But China has earned the economic strength to throw its weight around in its own sphere. Philipines has also made overtures to China since that ruling. The Philipines can see the writing on the wall. Cant beat them, join them.

          Comment

          • QuantumFX
            What?

            Originally posted by Vans View Post
            I am surprised they did not give it the standard all grey paint.

            how long will it be before we see some new J-xx variant that is a copy of the su-35?
            Aggressor squadrons in the PLAAF have such paint scheme. Previously Su-30MKK had similar patterns but different colors - image.

            So it is likely these Su-35 are there to give PLAAF pilots of J-10, J-11, J-20 a good torture test. Su-35 will prove vital for the PLAAF developing new tactics especially using TVC. This is the 1st time a TVC enable fighter is in service with the PLAAF.

            Comment

            • TR1
              TR1
              http://tiny.cc/tp8kd

              TVC is great tool, but hardly as much of a game changer as modern sensors and all-aspect IR missiles.

              If they were so interested in TVC alone, they could have bought a larger batch of 117S with TVC and still saved money on the purchase overall. Probably could have integrated them into one of the Flanker rip-offs they domestically produce.

              More likely they are interested in the combination of TVC, wing mounted AESA IFF (assuming they got it), the excellent mechanical + electronic scan ability of the Irbis, the OLS-35 (compared to the generation older sets they have on their Su-27s and 30s).
              Plus they got wing-jammers by the look of it, though how it stacks up to the domestic L-265M is anyone's guess.

              I also don't buy the purely aggressor training argument, but time will tell what the PLAAF does with its new premier fighters.
              Last edited by TR1; 9th February 2018, 05:59.
              sigpic

              Comment

              • Alpha Bravo
                Rank 5 Registered User

                Even if we assume the Su-35s are not for aggressor training, what possible difference would such a small number make in the much greater scheme of things in terms of the PLAF? And yet, clearly there must have been a compelling enough reason to acquire these, as apposed to pressing ahead with the more advanced versions of China's own Flanker derivatives.

                Comment

                • KGB
                  KGB
                  Senior Member

                  Did someone really suggest that China bought the su 35 to use as aggressors ? Its usually inferior aircraft that are used for agressors. Its not just TVC. The su 35 has super cruise and 5th gen avionics.

                  Comment

                  • QuantumFX
                    What?

                    Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                    TVC is great tool, but hardly as much of a game changer as modern sensors and all-aspect IR missiles.

                    If they were so interested in TVC alone, they could have bought a larger batch of 117S with TVC and still saved money on the purchase overall. Probably could have integrated them into one of the Flanker rip-offs they domestically produce.

                    More likely they are interested in the combination of TVC, wing mounted AESA IFF (assuming they got it), the excellent mechanical + electronic scan ability of the Irbis, the OLS-35 (compared to the generation older sets they have on their Su-27s and 30s).
                    Plus they got wing-jammers by the look of it, though how it stacks up to the domestic L-265M is anyone's guess.

                    I also don't buy the purely aggressor training argument, but time will tell what the PLAAF does with its new premier fighters.
                    No it is not just so for aggressors and training. If the J-11D gets delayed even further or is not up to what the PLAAF wants, they likely need to buy more Su-35. Lots more.

                    When it comes exporting engines of AL-31 variations, Russia is not going sell any engine that might end-up in locally built flanker variants like J-11B. All Saturn engines sold are for existing flankers with contractual obligations. All other AL-31 variants are by Salut and are exclusive for Chengdu. And I should have been clearer it is not just about the TVC mechanism. China has been ground testing TVC since the 80s and 90s. Key thing about the Su-35 is the integration of the TVC with the FBW. Russians have been exporting TVC integrated fighters since the Su-30MKI. Russia has very mature TVC integration that China does not have. The other key things about the Su-35 for China is is the elimination of the airbrakes and canards. All J-11B variants use those giant airbrakes. Shenyang needs to know how to do that with the J-11B variants. Supercruise of the 117C might also be a plus but we don't know how well it supercruises with actual weapons attached. Regarding the avionics, I don't see how that is much of an attraction. J-10C and J-16 already have some components of the J-20.

                    So China's potential adversaries have been flying TVC ebabled fighters for more than 10 years and that means they had at least 10 years to build the relevant tactics. China needs to adapt quickly. Su-35 is an excellent choice for this. From early rumors, China only wanted a handful for "testing purposes" but Russian were like "Full deal or no Deal".
                    Last edited by QuantumFX; 10th February 2018, 16:23.

                    Comment

                    • Alpha Bravo
                      Rank 5 Registered User

                      Then that begs the question, why didn't the Chinese opt for TVC version of flankers all them years ago, like the Indians did?

                      Comment

                      • QuantumFX
                        What?

                        Originally posted by Alpha Bravo View Post
                        Then that begs the question, why didn't the Chinese opt for TVC version of flankers all them years ago, like the Indians did?
                        Unlike today, China was not financially strong enough when the Su-37 1st flew. It is also possible that China underestimated the value of TVC back then. India on the other hand went all in with Su-30MKI. Then came the whole J-11B controversy. That pi$$ed the Russians a lot and they were not willing to sell some of their best equipment unlike the Indians or demanded China buy very large quntities to be bought upfront.
                        Last edited by QuantumFX; 10th February 2018, 16:23.

                        Comment

                        • QuantumFX
                          What?

                          Some J-20 pics:
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • TomcatViP
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            is that me of the front inlet bypass (the hexagon meshed surface on the side of the inlet) has been obturated?

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	J-20 FrontInletBypassObturated.jpg
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Size:	159.0 KB
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                            Last edited by TomcatViP; 10th February 2018, 22:50.

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                            • TomcatViP
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              prb fixed: PS

                              Comment

                              • Ozair
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                I wasn't aware the J-20 had an engine fire in 2015. Did I just miss this or has it only recently been revealed? If so, interesting that all three new stealth aircraft, J-20, PAK-FA and F-35 have had engine fire issues during dev and test.

                                Why China’s first stealth fighter was rushed into service with inferior engines

                                China rushed its first advanced stealth fighter jet into service ahead of schedule last year, using stopgap engines, in the face of rising security challenges in the region, the South China Morning Post has learned. But that means its capabilities will be severely limited, affecting its manoeuvrability and fuel efficiency as well as its stealthiness at supersonic speeds. Without saying how many were in operation, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force confirmed on Friday that the J-20, the country’s fifth-generation fighter, had entered combat service, meaning it was combat-ready.

                                However, the aircraft was equipped with inferior engines designed for earlier warplanes when it first joined the air force in March last year because “critical problems” with its tailor-made WS-15 engine, exposed by an accident in 2015, had not been fixed, two independent military sources told the Post.

                                “The WS-15 engine designed for the J-20 exploded during a ground running test in 2015,” one source said, adding that no one was injured in the accident. “The explosion indicated the WS-15 is not reliable, and so far there is no fundamental solution to overcome such a problem … that’s why the J-20 is using WS-10B engines now.” The WS-10B is a modified version of the WS-10 Taihang engine, which was designed for the country’s fourth-generation J-10 and J-11 fighters.
                                The explosion was confirmed by another source close to the military, who said the reasons it happened were complicated, with one being the quality control of its single-crystal turbine blades, the key component for such a powerful turbofan engine.
                                http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplo...rushed-service

                                Comment

                                • QuantumFX
                                  What?

                                  Originally posted by Ozair View Post
                                  ...
                                  WS-15 has never powered the J-20. WS-15 is still years away. So far there have been no leaks on engine fires on the J-20 AFAIK. The article alleges that during ground testing of the WS-15 there was an explosion at one stage. I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing happened become this is uncharted territory for China. WS-10 development also went through a lot pain intially including a 2-year halt in powering the J-11B (2007 - 2009). But they eventually got it right and the WS-10 is now pushing towards 137 - 138 kN with the latest versions (WS-10X/IPE). So yeah, maybe there was an accident/explosion during ground testing of a WS-15, but not on a J-20. J-20 still uses AL-31FN/FM variant. There are 2x prototypes flying with WS-10X/IPE.

                                  Comment

                                  • Ozair
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    Originally posted by QuantumFX View Post
                                    WS-15 has never powered the J-20. WS-15 is still years away. So far there have been no leaks on engine fires on the J-20 AFAIK. The article alleges that during ground testing of the WS-15 there was an explosion at one stage. I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing happened become this is uncharted territory for China. WS-10 development also went through a lot pain intially including a 2-year halt in powering the J-11B (2007 - 2009). But they eventually got it right and the WS-10 is now pushing towards 137 - 138 kN with the latest versions (WS-10X/IPE). So yeah, maybe there was an accident/explosion during ground testing of a WS-15, but not on a J-20. J-20 still uses AL-31FN/FM variant. There are 2x prototypes flying with WS-10X/IPE.
                                    Thanks for that insight.

                                    Comment

                                    • QuantumFX
                                      What?





                                      Attached Files

                                      Comment

                                      • J-20
                                        Rank 3 Registered User

                                        no fire
                                        but yes, rushed into service

                                        j-20 stronk!

                                        Comment

                                        • QuantumFX
                                          What?

                                          J-20 prototype 2021 (WS-10X?)
                                          Attached Files

                                          Comment

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