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    Originally posted by Multirole View Post
    ...
    3x J-20 and 3x Su-35.
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 2nd November 2017, 09:28. Reason: added quote

    Comment


      3x J-20 and 3x Su-35.
      Nope, ... these are 3 J-16.

      And by the way it is finally a clearer image available, that now allows a better estimation of the J-20's dimensions.
      So no longer an estimation based on a grainy satellite image.

      But Im sure certain members at the PDF and here too will again present us a theory why the J-20 is still about 22-23m long.

      Deino
      Attached Files
      ...

      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
      My working week and my Sunday rest,
      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
      -------------------------------------------------
      W.H.Auden (1945)

      Comment


        And as I expected here's already the first excuse why I'm wrong with my estimation:

        ...
        I am simply questioning the identity of the Flanker behind the J-20, and the statement that it's wingspan is 14.7m.
        Why are you, or anybody else, so sure it's 14.7m?
        ....
        ...

        He was my North, my South, my East and West,
        My working week and my Sunday rest,
        My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
        I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

        The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
        Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
        Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
        For nothing now can ever come to any good.
        -------------------------------------------------
        W.H.Auden (1945)

        Comment


          Originally posted by Deino View Post
          Nope, ... these are 3 J-16.

          And by the way it is finally a clearer image available, that now allows a better estimation of the J-20's dimensions.
          So no longer an estimation based on a grainy satellite image.

          But I’m sure certain members at the PDF and here too will again present us a theory why the J-20 is still about 22-23m long.

          Deino
          J-16? My bad! Should have known better. The Su-35 has a different camo.

          EDIT:

          J-16 length would be similar to the Su-30MKK but without the pitot tube. So the length of the J-20 will actually be less than (21.93 - pitot length).
          Attached Files
          Last edited by QuantumFX; 2nd November 2017, 11:58.

          Comment


            Really ??? I thought the length is 21.93 without the pitot.

            ...

            He was my North, my South, my East and West,
            My working week and my Sunday rest,
            My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
            I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

            The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
            Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
            Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
            For nothing now can ever come to any good.
            -------------------------------------------------
            W.H.Auden (1945)

            Comment


              Originally posted by Deino View Post
              Really ??? I thought the length is 21.93 without the pitot.
              I am having very sh!++y day today. The correct value is 21.94 m without the tube for the Su-27. So using that I get 21.1 to 21.3. There is a margin of error due to the blurring when resizing. 21m is a safe bet.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Multirole View Post
                ... From @xinfengcao ...
                Thank You, Multirole, for this highly interesting photo!!


                Originally posted by QuantumFX View Post
                J-16 length would be similar to the Su-30MKK but without the pitot tube. So the length of the J-20 will actually be less than (21.93 - pitot length).
                Originally posted by Deino View Post
                Really ??? I thought the length is 21.93 without the pitot.
                I myself was also not sure...

                The image below is also the link to the website




                It seems the length of the J-16 is 21,935 m, but without the pitot.

                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                As far as the dimensions of Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group J-20 are concerned ...

                I think I have managed to extract a little bit clearer image than those set in the previous posts, but regardless of that it is very difficult to determine the exact place where those auxiliary lines should be placed beacuse the image itself is blurred and distorted. Already a tenth of a millimeter of difference in the positioning of the auxiliary lines represents a difference ...

                The reference values where those of J-16 aircraft, its length and the wingspan. According to them I got that
                J-20s winspan could be 12,83 m / 42 ft 1,1 in, and its length 21,34 m / 70 ft 0,2 in. Those obtained values I find only as the approximate ...



                Honestly, the first time I saw J-20, I thought this aircraft must be having 25 m of length ...

                Mario
                Last edited by mfranjic; 4th November 2017, 21:31.
                'Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile' - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                  my take...

                  the length of J-20 should be from nose to end of tail booms -- not from nose to tip of tail fins. The photo was taken by a drone at a fairly low altitude, meaning the two J-20s on the sides look like the tip of the tail fins extend beyond the length of the tail booms due to perspective, but the most optimal and real view to see J-20's length as one would judge it from a perfect profile view or plan view, is the J-20 in the middle in the center of the image.


                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	3677384

                  Comment


                    My take - The production J-20 is slightly longer than the demonstrators 2001/2002. Longest point is the tail-boom. No matter how I slice it I cannot get a value below 21m, but it is less than 21.5m and shorter than the earlier 22 to 23 meter estimates. I know some even claimed it would be around 25m .
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      My take - The production J-20 is slightly longer than the demonstrators 2001/2002. Longest point is the tail-boom. No matter how I slice it I cannot get a value below 21m, but it is less than 21.5m and shorter than the earlier 22 to 23 meter estimates. I know some even claimed it would be around 25m .
                      Indeed ... but idiots are everywhere. The most recent excuse from such a certain member at the PDF was:

                      ...
                      I am simply questioning the identity of the flanker behind the J-20, and the statement that it's wingspan is 14.7m.
                      Why are you, or anybody else, so sure it's 14.7m?
                      And a few post later he even claimed:

                      That he found out by comparisons that the Flanker's span is in fact 15.70 and Sukhoi simply fooled us all..
                      ...

                      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                      My working week and my Sunday rest,
                      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                      -------------------------------------------------
                      W.H.Auden (1945)

                      Comment


                        Interesting pics and topic.
                        Is the J-16 an improved incarnation of Su-30MKK/Su-30M2?
                        The older inferior version should be Su-30MK2.
                        Thanks

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                          Interesting pics and topic.
                          Is the J-16 an improved incarnation of Su-30MKK/Su-30M2?
                          The older inferior version should be Su-30MK2.
                          Yes it is meant to supplement and eventually replace Su-30MKK/MK2.

                          Comment


                            Interesting pics and topic.
                            Is the J-16 an improved incarnation of Su-30MKK/Su-30M2?
                            The older inferior version should be Su-30MK2.
                            Indeed ... and besides several operational at the FTTC, the 176th Brigade (together with the J-20As) the first frontline unit also received them at Wuhu.
                            Attached Files
                            ...

                            He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                            My working week and my Sunday rest,
                            My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                            I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                            The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                            Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                            Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                            For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                            -------------------------------------------------
                            W.H.Auden (1945)

                            Comment


                              ROFLMAO

                              there were fools here who kept insisting it was 18 or 19 meters, but no more than 20, and that it was the size of the f-22.
                              Quantum was the only one who also reached a similar conclusion as mines that it was near identical with the Flanker, and his posts above prove it again.
                              Not sure why having the longest 5th gen fighter makes some chinabots go nuts.

                              anyways moving on, now that the su-35 is confirmed, which is the PLAAFs best fighter.. the su-35 or j-20?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                                ***
                                anyways moving on, now that the su-35 is confirmed, which is the PLAAFs best fighter.. the su-35 or j-20?
                                In BVR the J-20 blows away everything in the PLAAF. After the J-20, the most advanced EW systems are in the J-10C and J-16, especially the J-10C (which may have an active cancellation system) but even those supported by KJ-2000 AWACS are no match for the J-20 if rumors are to be believed . It seems the 1st thing the J-20 does is, it takes out is the KJ-2000 and then pick the other fighters one by one. Off-course those were initial encounters and the PLAAF is still learning how use and at the same time counter 5th gen fighters using non-5th gen fighters. Again if rumors are to be believed the Su-35 has serious trouble dealing with the J-10B in BVR. So no point even bringing the J-20.

                                EDIT: Disregard the following statements -
                                WVR is a completely different story. At subsonic speeds the J-20 is said to be comparable to the J-10 and J-11 but the Su-35 is a completely different monster and especially from the rear those R-73 should not have any problem locking onto the J-20.
                                Last edited by QuantumFX; 7th November 2017, 08:50.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by QuantumFX View Post
                                  In BVR the J-20 blows away everything in the PLAAF. After the J-20, the most advanced EW systems are in the J-10C and J-16, especially the J-10C (which may have an active cancellation system) but even those supported by KJ-2000 AWACS are no match for the J-20 if rumors are to be believed . It seems the 1st thing the J-20 does is, it takes out is the KJ-2000 and then pick the other fighters one by one. Off-course those were initial encounters and the PLAAF is still learning how use and at the same time counter 5th gen fighters using non-5th gen fighters. Again if rumors are to be believed the Su-35 has serious trouble dealing with the J-10B in BVR. So no point even bringing the J-20.

                                  WVR is a completely different story. At subsonic speed the J-20 is said to be comparable to the J-10 and J-11 but the Su-35 is a completely different monster and especially from the rear those R-73 should not have any problem locking onto the J-20.
                                  Where did we hear the J-20 at subsonic speed is comparable to a J-10 or J-11?

                                  Comment


                                    Where did we hear the J-20 at subsonic speed is comparable to a J-10 or J-11?
                                    We never heard that.

                                    What we heard, from one of the J-20 pilots after the parade, was that J-20's performance in subsonic speeds was merely "good" and that J-20's performance at supersonic speeds was "astonishing".


                                    There was never any mention of J-20's performance compared to any planes.

                                    Hyperwarp/quantumfx, careful about answering questions with answers that are not true...

                                    Comment


                                      ROFLMAO

                                      there were fools here who kept insisting it was 18 or 19 meters, but no more than 20, and that it was the size of the f-22.
                                      Quantum was the only one who also reached a similar conclusion as mines that it was near identical with the Flanker, and his posts above prove it again.
                                      Not sure why having the longest 5th gen fighter makes some chinabots go nuts.

                                      anyways moving on, now that the su-35 is confirmed, which is the PLAAFs best fighter.. the su-35 or j-20?

                                      I think it was pretty common to say it was slightly over 20m, especially after Deino's wonderful satellite comparison picture done four years or so back. I didn't read many people argue it was 18-19m, but maybe we read different places.


                                      More roflmao worthy are the people who persisted that it was 22-23m long... it's amazing they could be that off

                                      Comment


                                        since it is over 21m, 22-23 is not that far off, especially to people saying it was 19m.

                                        whats more is that when that picture of the flanker clone and j-20 on the same tarmac began circulating, people here were so sure that the j-20 is smaller than a flanker when they are comparable in size.

                                        second was how people here vehemently denied china was going to buy the su-35. whats wrong with the su-35?

                                        Comment


                                          a google chached image from Chinese sources comparing the f-22 and the j-20. needless to say it was very off

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